DD(11) friendship troubles

[BillyWilliamTheThird]

Backstory is this:
DD (year six) has not been great at maintaining friendships for the last few years. She moved schools at the beginning of this academic year partly due to a really toxic three-way friendship she was in at her old school (not the only reason, there were academic and geographic reasons for the move too, the social stuff was just the deciding factor). We thought it'd be good for her to have a fresh start in a new school closer to home with other kids nearby to hang out with.

She had her birthday at the beginning of the school year so we invited some new friends and some old ones too, along with a couple from dance class. New school were very positive about how she was settling in. All seemed good.

She's just told us that she's being excluded by the new friends she's made, that they're all paired up, and are making excuses not to include her/ sit with her etc. I guess the novelty of her being new has worn off. It's basically the same sort of thing that was happening at the old school. One of the new friends she invited to her party recently had a party last week and didn't invite her :-(

I can't really work out what she's getting wrong. She can be a bit full on I suspect but she's not great at reflecting on her own behaviour. How do I go about talking to her about this in a way that's not going to upset her? Or do we just ride it out until she figures it out for herself? I know I'm being a bit precious about it, but it's rubbish when she has no one to hang out with.

I also really struggled to maintain friendships at school around that age, and specifically remember being cruelly excluded by 2 "friends" (this was in the days of MSN messenger and they both were messaging me about how they were having a sleepover together, going to the under 16 disco together next week, etc). I think it's just a reflection on teenage behaviour and the cycle goes round, soon these girls will be the ones getting left out by someone else.
For me high school (and late primary school) was about survival and though I had some really good times, I never really fit in. Your daughter will find her crew in time. Xx

(Just to add I spent my Saturday nights as a teenager going to the cinema with my mum instead of drinking/losing my virginity like my peers and have no regrets about it...)

I guess it depends on what’s actually going on. DDs class had a new girl start. She had been moved because she was being bullied. Thing is witching a day of being in her new class she had declared she had specific best friends and no one else was allowed to hang around with them. DD offered to let her join her and her friend and was told no, the only person they wanted was the new best friends she had. Having spoken to one of the other mums, she told me this young lady had come on quite strong and wouldn’t allow others to join them unless she essentially gave them a stamp of approval. These were well established friendship groups, she came out crying one day and I could hear her telling her mum they were all nasty and bullying her. Sure we had had a few issues over the years but generally the girls got on well and if there was a problem you could approach each other. I ran into a mum whose DD went to a different school and it turned out that she had been moved from her DD’s school and they had similar issues.

It could be that some of these kids are genuinely a bit mean, who knows but there is also the possibility that maybe these kids are struggling with OP’s DD.

It takes a while to settle in to a new school. The loads of very close friends at first and then they drift away seems a classic pattern to me. She will make new friends. As long as she's not actually being bullied (and it doesn't sound like she is) I would just let her ride it out a bit. I know that is hard but if you create an extremely loving and relaxing atmosphere at home (not suggesting you don't usually, just more even than usual) I think that's the best way you can help her.

If the issues are following her around, I think you can safely assume that her behaviour is causing the ostracism, unfortunately. When you say she's "full on" what do you actually mean?

I think sometimes this stuff follows you around because you've learned toxic patterns. You can unlearn them though, but I'm not sure it's something you can teach. Self esteem is the main thing imo.

Thank you all. MolliciousIntent I suspect she tries a bit too hard and maybe talks at people. Not bossy as such, but perhaps a bit overbearing iyswim? Certainly (I hope!) not to the extent that itsjustnotok says though. The issues at the old school really weren’t of her making, just friendship groups shifting due to them getting older and I think it knocked her confidence.

She’s definitely not being bullied and is doing really well academically at the new school. Lots of self-esteem building at home it is then.

Thanks again everyone.

What sort of school is she in? If she has joined for the last year I think it is very hard to make new friends, is she going to senior next year?

Do they have lunch clubs, sometimes easier to make friends in a smaller group, also do they offer Elsa/Seal (apologies can't remember what it stood for exactly) a support group in school where you learn to manage emotions/make friends/change thought processes. It was v useful for my DD who had similar issues.

I do think kids in a new school deserve a new start though @itsjustnotok . I'm sure the kid will repeat patterns at first but it is difficult for a child to start a new school with established friendships anyway without having the past follow them round to make it worse.

@Mardyface i totally agree that a new school should be a new start but I also think that if the same behaviours end up being repeated then the issue needs addressing. It’s no good expecting the kids to put up with it, it’s one thing settling in but of the behaviours is allowed on the basis of settling in and no one says anything, chances are the pattern becomes established, this isn’t fair on the class and it’s not fair on the child either because no one is addressing whatever the issue is.

Mossgrowsfat DD moved from a teeny village primary school to a larger primary school round the corner from our new house. The old school had also failed their ofsted and wasn’t on the doorstep once we’d moved. Many reasons for her kit to stay there and the toxic threesome was really just the last straw.

DD certainly isn’t on the level of the girl that itsnotok mentions! Sounds as though the school have some work to do with her and her family. The new school have a great pastoral team and seem very supportive. It’s parents evening next week so we’ll raise it then I think.

And yes, off to secondary for y7 next year so I suspect we’ll do this all again in a year’s time. Really I was looking for some practical advice about how to chat with her about how to be a friend. DH, DS and I are all quite gregarious and have never really had this problem ourselves. DD is not mean or controlling, but I think she’s probably a over-keen and comes across as needy which is probably very off putting!

And I’ll definitely ask about the SEAL thing at parents Eve. It’s sounds perfect for DD. Someone objective encouraging her to reflect is definitely what she needs. Thanks @MossGrowsFat

Many children struggle to let their friends be friends with other people. Being left out could mean that simply she wasn't chosen to be someone's partner or waited for at lunch. She needs to learn to be more resilient and to hang out with a larger group. Practise different responses with her that don't lead to drama and upset. It may be that she is too demanding. Also as someone new she may well be trying to break into an established friendship.

Tough for your DD but also how you react to this will help her make sense of it all.
Lots of social skills have to be learnt throughout primary and secondary school and it's tough watching your kids try and fail.
She's not going to suddenly have besties at a new school and yr 6 is quite ephemeral as kids start thinking about high school. These are girls in well established friendships and unless she hugely clicks with them, they're going to be transitory friendships.
Needy and full on aren't great characteristics for easy to get along with kids! But don't worry too much, it won't always be like this.
When my DD was having social issues we would talk it through and then role play how she might do it differently again and reflect on what had happened.
She did ok at primary, found high school very hard going for the first two years but has found a nice group of friends after that. Part of the change has been her learning better social skills!
I always think it's good for kids to have social circles outside of school too. That way you have more opportunities to have successful friendships with people with similar interests.

My older DD learned to be less clingy/overbearing the hard way, but she was able to do it in the context of friends she had known from reception. She is so much better now (at 14!) and is very mature about not being involved in every activity etc. So sometimes it's a bit of a hard lesson but it works out eventually.

My younger DD moved schools and found it very difficult to settle in but managed eventually. I don't think she was ever overbearing/needy just felt rather awkward in among groups of established friends. Again, it was a hard lesson but the best way to learn it is through experience, as teeth grittingly difficult as that is for all concerned. The SEAL thing does sound useful though and I wish we had had it for both kids!

And 100% agree about friends outside school too.

@Beamur the role play thing is a great suggestion. Thank you. She has some lovely friends from dance class too which certainly helps.

I think trying to fit in with established relationships is part of the problem, but she doesn’t seem to be managing it very well atm! We’ve talked today about how it’s all very transitory as everything will get thrown up in the air again next year. I’m a secondary teacher so I spend a lot of time nurturing y7 girls through the social aspects of the first term and a half. It’ll probably be good for DD to learn some of the necessary resilience and how not to be overbearing now!

Like everything to do with parenting, I know these things shall pass but it’s hard to live it while it’s happening and it’s good to hear from others who’ve been through similar and come out the other side.