At wits end with 4 year olds shouting and fidgeting

[edgeware]

Does anyone have any advice for a 4 year old that is just an absolute nightmare to have inside the house?

He is fine when you take him outside or to an activity - which we do PLENTY of. Lovely behaviour all around. But as soon as it’s time to sit inside and relax for a bit (for example, if his little brother is napping or if we (and he!) need a bit of a rest after an active morning outside) he is just unbearable. He fidgets and jumps around endlessly, and god forbid me and DH might need to have an adult interaction - he CONSTANTLY shouts over us, screeches, interrupts. If you are sat on the sofa and have the TV on for him he just fidgets around you, bounces on the sofa, clicks his tongue… Asking patiently doesn’t work, ignoring it doesn’t work, getting firm doesn’t work. It seems like too ‘much’ to do a star chart for.

I understand that it’s partly because he needs to be ‘good’ in school all week now he is in reception but it’s honestly driving us over the edge because there seems to be no respite. We literally can’t have an adult conversation when he’s awake. He is a lovely, clever boy and we give him plenty of positive attention, time outdoors and unstructured play time. Is it just this age?!

What does he play with? Or doesn't he?

He plays plenty, and has lots of lovely toys. But he seems to not be able to just play independently much at the moment and just wants constant interaction and (negative) attention.

For example, yesterday we went to the playground, did a nature walk with his ‘I Spy’ book, he went swimming with dh, and went to the supermarket with me where he got to push a kids trolley and put all the shopping in himself. Played play dough at home amongst other things. Plenty of positive attention. So why is he such a pain in the ass the minute we need 2 minutes to ourselves??

Could he watch some telly somewhere separate to you? I used to put mine in front of the tv in the afternoon with some crisps etc whilst I had a ‘some time’ in the kitchen. It became part of the day during lockdown!

Also, what do you do when he interrupts you and your partner? Because I won’t allow my children to do that, and it’s easy to find yourself answering the child.

Obviously I am not a doctor/cannot diagnose based on one trait relayed via mumsnet post, but he sounds quite similar to my DS1 who was later diagnosed with ADHD. Mild (he wouldn't have been flagged up if I hadn't asked, as it has never affected school; he's also bright, which allows him to compensate) but still, the difference between him at that age and my DS2 who is now 4 was astronomical.

As he was my first I had no idea it wasn't normal, and like you, spent as much time outside as possible but it didn't really help and I think it really damaged our relationship actually because I found it very hard to spend time with him without getting frustrated.

I could not understand why people consoled each other on toddler threads saying it gets better at 4 because for us it really didn't. But with DS2 I can see what they meant.

It can be hard to tease out normal 4yo behaviour from ADHD behaviour but the frequency is usually the key. Have a look and see what you can find out?

Worth also ruling out anything "easy" like is he getting enough sleep, a balanced diet, have you tried ruling out any food groups to check for an intolerance (wheat, refined sugar can be things to check).

Interrupting and always on the go are two separate issues.

I wouldn't put up with interruptions. Stop it every time. Mummy is talking, just wait.

Many 4yos don't need rests just because they've been out in the morning. I don't think either of mine ever just sat still to watch TV. They always watched whilst doing a puzzle, drawing etc.

@BertieBotts I’m not gonna lie, it has crossed my mind because the difference between him and my DS2 is like you said, astronomical. He is only 2 granted but he can sit still and chill out for a bit! It’s possible to just ‘be’ in the house with him without going insane. I could never stay in the house with DS1 from being a baby, the first lockdown was our worst nightmare!

The interrupting and shouting and fidgeting is related to us because because it’s needing our attention CONSTANTLY. When he interrupts we do try to say stop - no, wait your turn - ignore anything else - but he is usually unfazed or is annoying enough to the point where he’s got what he wanted, ie. you lose your trail of thought. Obviously we get angry with him but he doesn’t care enough to amend the behaviour.

@Seeline maybe puzzle/drawing whilst watching TV is a good one. He just literally can’t sit still.

There are defo traits of ADHD in their but he is only young. My DC was the same. Finally diagnosed a few years later. Was largely ok at school as busy and occupied. Lockdown was hell.

downtime does not have to mean television and sitting down. How about an engaging activity, such as building a lego model. That way he uses his brain and has to follow instructions, but is not running about.

Does he play on a screen? Is he allowed to?

I have the exact same issue atm with my 3.5 yr old . I'm starting to wonder if she has ADHD as her stepbrother has it, so I see many similar traits. I'd rather know now, so I can get her the right support and know the process can be long, but it could just be a phase where they just want attention and need boundaries etc ?

I thought sensory seeker when I read your post. Would you look at getting some gross motor fidget style toys - a wobble board, balance board - anything that will help him channel his energy. Also squeezy toys are great, things like a squish ball, playdoh, even bluetak. Does he like water play or messy play?

It might be no harm to bring him to an occupational therapist to get some advice on his sensory profile.

@Feetache Occasionally, not too much. I let him go on the CBeebies Get Creative app yesterday and that did capture his attention for ages.

ADHD can mean hyper focus too and if you happen to be the subject of the hyperfocus then you’re simply not allowed to look or think or say anything else. It has driven me to the edge of reason, with my youngest. He’s medicated now and it makes a world of difference. I feel for you. Unless you’ve lived it, it’s hard to appreciate how maddening it is.