my dcs are 7 and 9 - are 2 instruments too much?

[Pollyanna]

Both ds (9) and dd1 (7) learn the piano privately and ds also learns clarinet and dd1 violin at school. Both have asked to learn the second instrument. One of my conditions of learning it is that they practice every/most day(s). I do this partly because I am paying for it, but also because I know that they'll get more enjoyment out of it. Their practice for each instrument is no more than 5 minutes

I know I should ignore her, but my au pair has said that my children are missing out on their childood because of this practice (with the 5 or so minutes of homework each night). I asked my mum and she said that she agrees with the au pair.

I wouldn't say it is a struggle to get them to practice, but they do need reminding. They don't do it every night. Both of them asked to do the second instrument and both of them say they really like playing both instruments, but I don't want to be making them too tired or being a pushy mother (I like them playing, but I wouldn't mind if they stopped the second instrument - the piano is non-negotiable at the moment).

Am i being unreasonable?

I'm with the au pair. It's bloody awful bringing home tired children/ doing homework/ sorting squabbles/making tea AND THEN undertaking the practise your blardy piano, practise your blardy clarinet doodah.

Awful.

DS1 was doing two instruments - he is 10 - and not musically talented it should be said. We have agreed to drop one, in the hope of that one being practised each night.

I don't think she's being idle, I think she's being realistic.

7 is very very young for lessons. 8 or 9 is ok IMO.

I wouldn't be expecting a child of 9 to be practising more than twice a week. I would more be hoping that they were playing around on the piano for fun at that age. Self-motivated practice is more normal around 12 or so for those with real passion (except those who can't be prised away from their instruments of course)

And as a musician, I consider the piano an essential and non-negotiable life skill for musicians. But that doesn't mean it has to be taken seriously at 9 years old.

emmaagain - disagree. 7 is PERFECT for lessons.

i started piano at 5 and violin at 7 and i'm still playing +/- 30 years later. it's my lifeline. as long as they enjoy it...

i used to be a violin teacher, and i definitely think learning the piano as well as violin broadened knowledge and helped in learning theory.

I disagree emmaagain. DS2 started piano a few months short of 7 and guitar aged 8.

He practises both (min. 10 mins) daily, and does about 50% of these unprompted, and all without fuss. He mostly practises unsupervised these days.

He enjoys playing and often plays more than he has to.

I actually think it's easier if you say they have to practise every day, then it's just a fixed/non-negotiable routine to just get on with rather than rail against.

Having said that there is a temperament issue as well. DS1 doesn't have music lessons and never has, because IMO he just doesn't have the character for regular sustained practise. He also has little natural talent/aptitude for music.

With pupils I've had, I found their progress so much quicker from 8 or 9 onwards, that's all. But it's just IMO, and there may well be 7 year olds who are well ready.

(Of course, as an oboist, I didn't start lessons on that instrument till I was 10 because I simply wasn't big enough - so it was piano lessons only - and the singers I know often didn't start singing lessons till well into their teens - so the start-early thing isn't really in my culture, though of course it's more prevalent among string players. And all these non-start-early people I'm talking about are professional musicians)

As for practice... well, the externally imposed practice was never a part of my childhood. We all played a lot for pleasure, and two of us ended up in the industry, but it was self-motivated practice and directed constructive practice really took off in our teens.

Something for players of orchestral instruments - the sooner you can get them in an orchestra of some kind the better - because they start really making music, with other people, and it's fun and it's just playing rather than learning solo pieces for lessons and exams.

I fundamentally disagree emmaagain - I think 7 is fine. Ds1 started violin at 5, piano at 6, he does 10-15 min on each a day, and also orchestra every saturday. He's 6.6 now, and doing pretty well.

I do think it depends on the child - I've had some before 7 who were fine, and some older who weren't, but in all cases I DO think daily practice has to be a given - twice a week just isn't enough to remember what they've done in the lesson! I agree they should play for fun, but they do at least need to sit at /take out the instrument each day.

And I guess it depends on the instrument - wind instruments are better started later, as the lungs are bigger (especially brass, and oboe!)! Piano you need big enough hands to get one finger per note, and violin can start any age.

Agree about orchestra - it's so rewarding, ds1 really enjoys it!

roisin - I agree, making it a daily thing means it's something you know has to be done each day (like brushing teeth) - if more flexible then you'll probably get to the end of the week and suddenly remember it's your lesson tomorrow, and no practice has been done!

hmmm... not like brushing teeth in this house. He has to be really nagged and reminded to do that, and then sent back again to do them properly!

I think it's okay as long as they enjoy learning the instrument. We got a piano tutor in for our dds, and they hated it. He had bad breath and spat when he spoke, apparently. They were 7 and 8 at the time.

Oi, roisin, get yourself over to the mop thread!

It's a dilema really - whether or not to insist on practise when they're young. We didn't with ds when he started piano at 7 and he didn't do very much and didn't make good progress, but enjoyed lessons and the instrument and stuck with it (luckily the lessons were very cheap, so I didn't stress about the cost aspect). Later when he started practising regularly (probably around age 9) he came on in leaps and bounds. He added a second instrument at 8, though it was 9 when he started it properly after a taster year - during which he was told not to practise and wasn't even allowed to bring the instrument home to start with. That low-key start to both instruments seems to have worked well for him - I never imagined he'd still be playing one, let alone two at 13 and at a high standard. I think it might have been counter-productive for him if we'd insisted on regular practise early on - it could easily have put him off. On the other hand my dd had roughly the same start, but never got to the point where she did want to practise and when we started to insist she did some she gave up. Maybe if we'd insisted from the start she'd have got used to it, but I think she's just not that way inclined to be honest. At least she's tried the instruments, had some success with one of them and decided from experience it's not for her though.

So, in short, 2 instruments isn't too much, practise is essential - you can get away without to start with but you have to start sometime. It's best if the children themselves can get into the habit without too much nagging from you. I'd think twice before dropping their non-piano instruments though - piano though great for playing nice sounding pieces of music alone on is VERY limited for group music making, so I'd see their other instruments as more important for enjoying music with as they get older.