Is this normal - tantrum when not reminded of usual morning routine

[EllieQ]

Had a 45 minute tantrum/ crying session from 7 year old DD this morning while getting dressed, which started when I said I’d need to brush her hair after she got dressed. Once she calmed down, I asked her why she had got upset, and it was apparently because I hadn’t said that I was going to brush her hair when we were going upstairs after breakfast (I’d said something like ‘time to go upstairs to get dressed and brush teeth’). As a result, she’d kicked off when I mentioned it.

I should add she can select clothes and get dressed by herself, but DH and I need to supervise so she doesn’t get distracted, and of course one of us needs to brush teeth and brush hair.

Firstly, I think a 7 year old should remember that brushing hair is a part of the usual morning routine - her hair gets brushed every morning and evening. Would you expect your 7 year olds to remember that?

Secondly, I do have some concerns about potential neuro-diversity and suspect this could be part of it. I wanted to ask if other ND children would react like this.

She has always struggled a bit with transitions from one activity to the next, so we often have to use timers/ reminders/ countdowns. I had assumed that when she got older, this would reduce, but it’s still an issue. For example, we always get her dressed straight after breakfast (even on lazy weekend days) as experience has shown that if we let her play for a while after breakfast, she will kick off when asked to stop and get dressed.

She can be anxious about new things and likes to know the details of any trip out - like we’re going to go to X, we’re getting the bus there, we’ll have lunch at the cafe there, then get the bus home. To be honest, I’m a bit like that too.

I have mentioned it to her teacher (she’s just finished Year 2), and he had no concerns, but I know girls often ‘mask’ more.

On the other hand, she’s our only child (not by choice), and is she behaving like this because we have babied her and spoilt her?

Anyone has something similar and been able to address it? Should I push for assessment for ASD/ ADHD? Or work on making her more independent and be less tolerant of tantrums? I feel that I am failing her a lot. Being a mum doesn’t come naturally to me.

This is absolutely a sign of potential neurodivergence.

My now 12 yr old was (and is) the same. Try a visual chart of the steps involved in getting dressed and ready for the day.

I should add btw that DS was diagnosed autistic at 8!

It's not behaviour I'd expect from a typically developing seven year old. It seems like she took what you said extremely literally? You didn't mention the hair so therefore it wouldn't be done even though it's done every day.

I would also expect a seven year old to be able to brush their own teeth and hair (but need help with anything more exotic than a ponytail).

Tricky. I’m veering towards not neuro- diverse because you’re DD explained that was why she was angry. Although of course being out of a routine can typically be very distressing for children with ASD, I’d say especially at the age of seven they don’t tend to be self aware about it in my experience. They don’t independently realise that’s why they are anxious or angry.

It does sound like she is resistant of being independent and likes having you do things for her.

But I think you do need to go with you’re instincts. I know you’ve spoken to her teacher but if you’re still concerned maybe see if you can have a chat with the SENCO too, comparing her behaviour at school to what you see at home.

Should I push for assessment for ASD/ ADHD? Or work on making her more independent and be less tolerant of tantrums?

I would also say that one does not cancel out the other - you can do both!

If you have any question about whether she’s neuro-diverse, it’s better to desk to your GP sooner rather than later. Assessment /diagnosis can take years.

FWIW, my ND ten year old reacts similarly. I have made various charts etc for him and that helps; but when I gave a similar chart to my seven year old NT DS he got cross with me “I’m not stupid mum. This is just what we do every day”

So, based on my highly scientific study of two, I’d say it’s worth looking into, but like a PP, my DS wouldn’t have been able to articulate that the hair brushing / teeth cleaning / whatever was the problem; he’d just be generically ‘angry’. It’s only in the last six months or so he’s able to say “I wasn’t expecting that” rather than just scream and shout.

Just from what you’ve written I would say it suggests something ND. My ds2 who is diagnosed as autistic hated stopping any activity he hadn’t finished. Full on meltdowns.
school and us worked on ‘pausing’. He had a special place to put work/books/colouring/etc when it was time to pause (even if the pause was for break, food, something he liked). Then he could go back to it later, depending on the day.

he’s much much better with it all now, he’s 14. But he is much happier with warnings, specific timings for things like dinner, leaving the house, etc.

we used the ‘now…then’ structure a lot. Now it’s dinner time, then it will be iPad time for eg.

a list of ‘jobs’ for getting up and going to bed helped too. Add a set of images to show each step.
as you encourage independence keep the images for them to refer to themselves.

My son has asd he would absolutely do that. We have written routines/planners

My dd used to react that way. I even started making charts that listed all the steps of getting ready in the morning or getting ready for bed. When she was very little that helped her see the steps, but by the time she was 7 it helped take the parents out of the equation and made things less adversarial.

she got her ASD diagnosis at 9. She was and remains very good at masking and is extremely intelligent so it took a long time, though as parents we had suspicions from about age 1.

my dd is bright engaged and appears to be a socially adept.
Then you scratch the surface.
She is now 14 and going away tomorrow on a church camp she hasn't been on before.
I have just had to phone a friend an get a breakdown of the daily timetable as I could see her start to panic at the unknown.

She was very like your dd at 7. I didn't realise just how much we 'scaffolded' her, in that I always gave her structure and timed warnings etc around change and transition, lots of routine. Lots of warning for changing routine.
My dd is now waiting for an autistm diagnosis. All primary school teachers said she was fine, mainly because she was not disruptive and she was clever so achieved academic goals. They brushed off the friendship issues.
Then she hit secondary, and it has all been much much harder and she has struggled socially so much.

Thought I would mention, I am in my late 40s and I still use written step lists as a basic coping technique for any routine changes. They are hugely helpful. I started making them for myself as a kid back in the dark ages when we didn’t get a diagnosis or any support at all.

Thank you everyone, lots to think about. @steppemum Your comment about ‘scaffolding’ your daughter with routine, timers, warning etc has really resonated - we do that a lot at home.

DD does well at school - good behaviour and good results , and there have been no friendship issues so far. She can be quite shy and reserved but has a group of friends at school including one BFF. She is very similar to me as a child, so perhaps I am able to identify issues and resolve them for / with her.

I didn’t want to mention it in my first post so not to prejudice the comments, but there are some family members on DH’s side who have been diagnosed with Aspergers/ ASD - his cousin (now an adult), his nephew, and another cousin’s son. And DH and I both fall into the socially awkward geek stereotype (though I’m sure neither of us would meet the criteria for a diagnosis).