DD's late bedtimes driving us crazy

[Mummyof287]

She is 5.4 yo, super lovely and very characterful, but can be very challenging and highly sensitive/needy too.Possible ADHD (referral is pending)
Settling her to sleep has always been difficult....she rarely settles until 9 on a 'good' night, 10 on a 'bad' night and on afew rare occasions 11 or 12.

She has a good bedtime routine and is settled by 7.30 earliest, 8 latest.She often seems overtired during the day and can be very whingey and highly emotional.She wakes somewhere between 7 and 8 (we try not to let her go past 8 unless it's a REALLY late bedtime, and on a school day she has to be up fairly early anyway)

We try to limit sugary foods particularly after lunch, but this is difficult atm with the change in routone and summer holidays.

I wouldn't mind if she just stayed upstairs and looked at some books/listened to her storybook CD (we also let her do some colouring quietly until 8/8.30) but she just keeps coming down again and again and it winds us up so much as we just don't get a break to watch any TV or anything.

She has got into a bad habit of wanting a snack late in the evening, which depending on how much tea she ate and what time she had it we do or don't allow.

We also have 9mo DD who is sometimes asleep/sometimes awake during the evnings, depending on whether she has napped late.I think older DD is sometimes jealous of her being downstairs, but even if she is asleep she is still up and down alot, and sometimes wakes her up too.

Any tips of how to help her settle/stay upstairs? All that works at the moment is counting to 10 and threatening consequences such as taking her TV time away if she doesn't go upstairs in time, but she still comes down again multiple times.At our wits end and its affecting mine and DH's relationship as it means we dont have any down time, makes us stressed then we end up arguing :(

When DD was like this - what we did controversially is to roll with it a little - aimed for a 9pm bedtime - yes we lost time together but the time we did was much more relaxing rather than dealing with it.

We went for a healthy snack (at 13 she definitely needs to eat fairly frequently with her metabolism) and went for that around 7:30 (porridge or toast) and then started to settle for 830-9 and have that hour doing something together

My DD was very much like this and is also going through diagnosis.

A couple of things they have helped are a weighted blanket, sleepy cream from Lush and meditation for children to listen to.

The biggest help though was becoming a teen, not much use to you now though!

Perhaps if you ask in the SN Section you might get some help as I've found that tips that work for NT DC really don't help my DD

I made two a "get out of bed free" pass. Star shaped, fancy font, laminated, bit of ribbon through the top etc. Told them they were allowed to use it once per evening so they needed to think really carefully about it. Once used they had to hand it over and I kept it till the next night. Obviously it's just a gimmick but it weirdly worked! Might be worth a try!

Ugh feel your pain
we had so many awful evenings of her coming down again and again
putting her to bed early or at a ‘normal time’ just meant the whole thing took hours.
lying down with dd used to help as if she could just lie there with eyes closed she would fall asleep. But it’s not a great habit to get into,
dd sharing a room with her younger sister at one point helped as she just didn’t want to be by herself

now at 14 she has an asd diagnosis and still has sleep issues but is obviously less dependent on me and happily spends the evening in her room.

3rd dd has had similar issues and this time round - probably helped by having 2 older dds - we just run with it and at age 7 she goes to bed about 9pm. Still sometimes it can be difficult but generally works better than when we tried to force dd1 to go to bed at an ‘acceptable’ time

you have my sympathies though x

I think it's great that you're focus is on her staying upstairs having quiet time rather than getting her to sleep.

How about whenever she comes down only offering her to do some homework or something that she doesn't like doing that's also tiering. That way she has a soft incentive not to come down.

i mean if she goes to sleep at 9 i don't really see the harm, if anything i think the battle makes her want to be more stubborn and keeps her awake longer i don't really understand that thing about denying her a snack though, as long as she's eaten dinner i don't see the problem in her wanting something after especially if she has adhd it's very hard for nuerodivergent people to feel full

How would she react to having her baby sister in her room?

Obviously you know your child and it would be a complete disaster but if she is given a 'big sister' job that she has to stay in her room to do.

You mention not having sugary foods, the body treats carbs like sugar so a slice of white toast is as bad as a boiled sweet.

I also love the star idea, that's genius.

Thanks so much for the helpful and sympathetic replies! Some great suggestions of strategies to try there :)

She has never been a child who needs alot of sleep, and isn't an early riser, so I think 9pm- 7/8 is her natural sleep time.
I don't mind her staying up til 9 if she does quiet things upstairs but just not coming down constantly.

We do often give her a snack and she always has a drink of water upstairs, but sometimes we say no to an evening snack (IF she has eaten a reasonable amount of tea) as when it's too late it A) keeps her up even later by the time she has eaten it, brushed her teeth again etc, and B) means she doesn't eat breakfast as she is still too full, which especially on a school day can be an issue as she then can't have anything until lunch.We are trying to get in the habit of asking early in the evening if she would like one, before we have brushed her teeth and she has settled to bed, and it gets too late.

I will certainly implement some of the ideas mentioned! 💡

People with ADHD can have sleep problems because of a lack of melatonin.
A melatonin supplement can make a huge difference

Can anyone recommend a melatonin supplement for children please?

My autistic 9YO is like this. I happily let him do whatever he wants upstairs, as long as he stays upstairs.

I'd give up trying to get her into bed before 9pm tbh. Especially now it's school holidays. Let her sit up late with you all. Yes you will lose a bit of telly time with DH, but it doesn't sound like you're having any anyway?

Then get her settled into bed. I didn't have as big of an age gap, but I always took my baby to bed at the same time as my eldest. Does your 9MO really need to be downstairs with you? I think this is also making it an issue.

It is only on prescription.
if the OPs DD is diagnosed with ADHD she should be able to get a prescription

Ah ok thank you, we are trying to get DD assessed too so will follow that through and ask whether that would be considered.
thank you