3 year old just doesnt' stop..... long sorry...

[twoplusone]

ANy advice welcome please..

My three year old.. (middle child) is and has been for the past 18months a very active child.. disruptive (only when with me though not at nursery), tantrums left right and centre..

we have always sat down for meals as a family.. if dh not home then the children adn I all eat together.. even when ds1 was in a high chair he was placed at the table at mealtime..(as is ds2 now who is 6months) he still has no table manners, will not sit at the table and eat, he will run around.. I have tried various punishments none work.. cant count how many times he has been sent to bed at 5 oclock for being naughty at the table and refusing to eat the food. He is even sick at times.. I am starting to think that maybe there is something wrong.. (he does gag alot at meal times.)
Generally in the house he cannot grasp the concept that toys and games are for playing with not throwing about.. over xmas when the inlaws where here they were trying to get him to put one toy away before getting another one out.. (which I personally don't agree with at this age as they do flit between toys.) Its not the mess that bothers me it takes 10 mins once he has gone to bed fto tidy it up. (we do have tidy up times where he helps before meals). He will use every toy as a weapon, has broken alot of his xmas pressies already. when he is not playing he will just run around like a maniac..shouting etc..

Alot of this sounds trivial and it may well be but it is constant and it gets me down, as dh is away alot I am on my own for long periods with the three children.. (dd 11yrs, ds1 3 ds2 6months) It is only ds2 that i dread being left with. even some friends will watch ds2 and dd but dont trust themselves with ds1 as he is so active and a handful.. he wants to be at everything still. He doesnt listen.

I have had his ears checked and he is under speech therapy.. the clinical measurement s said his ears were fine, but although nuirsery and i are happy he can hear we do believe the are very sensitve to some noises.. as he will quite often cover his ears.. I am taking him back tot he doctors to get is checked again.

I cant blame the way I have looked after him for his behaviour as dd was never like that and my parenting skills have not changed. He has had alot to cope with over the last 18months and I do give him some lea way for his.. but how can I help him more.

Over the last 18months we have had 2 moves (one from cyprus to germany, then another 10 months later when baby arrived..anoother thing for him to deal with, when we first arrived from cyrpus dh deployed for 4 months within three weeks of us moving.. since he has been back he is constantly away on courses (ds is worse when he is away so I know thish as something to do with it..) DH is going away again in three weeks for 6 months this time.. please give me some advise on how to deal with my 3 year old so i can bring harmony and a fair amount of peace to the household.. I have manged to get bedtimes sorted now and he is great then.. it took alot of hard work but we have got there..

Sorry so long but i really needed to ask for help.. tbh I feel relieved just getting this down..Thank you for reading

This sounds like hard work for you. He has been through a lot of change for a child his age.

Have you tried not putting on any pressure at meal times? Eg He can only eat food if he is sitting at the table but if he chooses to run around at meal times without eating he can. But don't punish him for not sitting still or refusing to eat.

yes I have tried to ignoree his behaviour at times esp at meal times.. but it doesnt help he sees it as he has won.. if we leave him to run about he will do popping in and out of the kitchen doing nah nah nahhingetc trying to get a reaction out of us. Breakfast he will sit at the table no problem..

I do ubndersatnd that he has been through alot and I suppose I let him get away with alot because of this.. but it really is getting to apoint were i feel I canyt cope with him anymore somedays.. he can reduce me to tears in minutes somedays.. which is really sad.

I love him to pieces.. he gets as much love and attention as my other two, somedays even more than they do as he isso demanding.. On the other hand he can be a really affrctionate little boy..

I am at the doctors in the morning, will speak to them about it..
Thankyou for replying to me othersideof thechannel..

Have you considered hyperactivity or ADHD?

I have thought this but it is only with me that his behaviour is like htis at school he is good as gold they are still waiting for a tantrum.. and because he is ok at school, HV etc say that he is fine... I am just going to hve to keep battling on.. hoping that he will calm down as he gets older... (not happening yet..bless him..) he really is like a tornado..
I am doomed to spending the next 6 months in the house well on camp unless he is at school as I really cant go anywere wth him even when my dh and I go shopping together with him we are both exhausted and never get what we went out for as we spend most of the time running around the shops (centre) after him.. if we put him in a trolly he plays up too so we then walk round with a screaming child.

Sorry to go on and on but it really does seem to me never ending.. I am just hoping and praying that ds2 is more like dd but all I can think is he is watching ds1 and learning!!!!

Yes, mention it to the doctor just in case.

For the meal times, even if he does that nah, nah thing try to ignore it. It will require the patience of a saint but if there is no reaction he should eventually give up. It will be helpful if you can stop seeing it as a battle or him winning. Easier said than done.

BTW, you are not going on at all, I have done way more venting that you are for minor annoyances with DS!

Also, if it is any consolation, we can't go shopping with DS (4) and DD (3) as they run all over the place. But they are usually quite calm at home for kids their age. But shopping is boring for them. There is one supermarket we can manage because it has little trolleys which makes it less borning for them.

Thanks, we have tried giving him a little trolly in the dshops that provide.. with the threat of if he is naughty he goes intot he big trolly and cant do the help with the shopping.. He then uses the trolley to ram the shelves..sometimes people..

Things like stixker charts etc that work at school dont work at home.. I have tries things for 2-3weeks.. When we use the stair for time ou or the bedroom.. he just says.. I have been naughty I will sit on the stair or whatever... surely then that isnt a punishment as he places himself there.. will come back say sorry then do the same thing again...

Must go get ready for the doctors...

We will get there in the end no doubt its just the case of how long it will take...

I don't actually think it matters if he is the one who takes himself off when he has done something naughty. DS always runs off to his room to calm down when he gets over excited or furious and hurts his little sister. They are still little and can't be expected to keep in control (I still can't, can you?)

It is the fact that he starts again immediately that is more worrying. I don't know what to suggest really.

mentioned to the doctor, who just insists that he is a very active boystrouse (sp) 3 year old. Will just keep perserveering and see how we go..
Thank you once again

Hi - my 2nd son is 3 going on 4 and has exhausted us over the years with his behaviour. When younger I didn't confront him so much for bad behaviour because he just got worse but recently I have been removing him from the room every time he does something wrong and he seems to be getting the message and kicks off less often. I stay with him until he has calmed down and then we go back to what he was doing. Obviously the other kids need to be old enough to be left alone but seems to be working for me at the moment.

Good luck.

Your ds sounds just like my ds1! He is absolutely exhausting. We have finally discovered that he has sensory processing disorder which makes him overreact/get really excited by certain stimuli. We have just had the evaluation and he starts therapy with an occupational therapist in a couple of weeks. There are some really good books out there if you want to investigate this possibility. I would recommend:

The Out-of-Sync Child
Raising the Spirited Child
The Highly Sensitive Child

One analogy on the running around that made sense to me was, imagine that you have to pee really, really badly and someone keeps telling you that you can't go to the bathroom. This is what it;s like for a spirited child who feels the need to run and is told to sit. Also, when I asked the OT why ds1 is so much worse at home she said, You know how you hold it together when you have a bad day at work, then come home and yell at your husband? Same thing here.

I really understood that one

ds1 is 4 1/2 btw and this really started getting to be a problem around 3 years.

Thank you that is really interesting to know.

I will have alook for the books.

Today whilst playing wen were doing jigsaw word and picture puzzles he stated throwing them about so i started to tidy up.. he appolgised so we carried on for all of 30secs before he started to throw them again, so I tidied the game (jigsaw) away.. and explained that if he isnt going to play nicely then mummy wouldnt play the games with him.
He accepted this after a little tantrum..
Later on his scalextric was set up for him to play and he remembered that we said you have to press the button softley, telling dh , dd and I that this was how he was going t play and bless him he did.. so when he sets his mind to it he can.. but after 5 mins the cars became missiles.. so they where put away.. But 5 mins is better than none.
Off out shopping tommorrow, for furniture, and food.. that should be fun..lol..

Thank you all again for your experiences..

I am defo going to look more into sensory processing disorder.. look at symtoms etc and compare them to my son.. (I really dont want to label him at the moment though at the moment..until I have exhausted all avenues..if I dont flake first..)

Sorry if ithas been suggested already, but have you tried the 'That;s fine if you don't want to eat it, I don't care' approach.
Actually go on as if you don't care which may bemuse him.

DS1 is 2.5 and getting a coat onto him for example canbe a nightmare.
'Lets put your coat on'

'NO!'

'Okay, that's fine, I don't mind'

Then he wants his coat on straight away.

I don't know anything about hyperactivity or the other disorders mentioned on this thread but alot of what you describe seems to be fairly typical 3 yr old behaviour, specially with a younger sibling just starting to turn into a rival rather than being a tiny baby who couldn't do anything but feed, poo, cry and sleep!

DS is relatively calm and can concentrate on one activity for quite a while before getting bored.

When he was 3 rather than saying he was bored he would start chucking the toy, game around. Still does to some extent when he is overtired.

Rather than punishing him for doing this by not playing with or threatening this punishment, have you tried 'I see you don't want to play xxx anymore. Shall we do some xxxxx now?'

Second what ladyofthecauliflowers says about the I don't care attitude. Save it for the really important things - car seat, not drawing on the furniture etc

I have tried the i dont care.. and he just says.ok. At nursery they say you make me feel sad inside, if they are naughty, andwhen they are good they say you have made me warm and happy inside.. I try this and i get.."No you make me feel sad".

I do know most of his behaviour is down to being three but it is more exagerated most days.. I think to be honest i am just so withdrawn because of it at the moment.. just feel I cant go anywere with him. I have just been told ofa play area near by so I am going to take him there, see how he goes with more running around.. it could just be that he needs tiring out more than what we are doing. I am also going to try doing my self a rota for each afternon.. i.e go ouy some where or do painting,, ;aydough or somthing..
Thinking about it maybe he is ok at school because there is a set routine.. Bedtime became alot easier once we made the rule.. no coming down stairs after bath.. bath story sleep.. Maybe he needs to be told now i it is time for xxxxx, throughout the day.. It is worth ar try..

Maybe I am just looking into things too much instead of just enjoying him.. it does make me feel quilty as I feel like I am failing him in some way..

Hi twoplusone,

Oh I do sympathise..My DS2 is 3 and sounds like a mirror image of your son. He is gorgeous and I love him to pieces but he just runs everywhere. I can't take him out as he runs off, has NO sense of danger. He won't sit at the dinner table (similar story to you) and the latest is that he won't stay in his bed. We have resorted to sitting outside his room until he falls asleep (if not he runs around and throws toys and books down the stairs etc). Did try stairgates but he builds a tower and climbs over (he even built a tower of nappies once after we had removed anything he could use to climb)! We are consistent and I like to think good (ish) parents. He is good as gold and popular at pre school and with other people, just totally manic with us.I get so scared of him hurting himself through his lack of danger awareness. Ironically DS1 (age 12) was the opposite and really quite clingy at the same age and would ask permission to get out of bed!

I am due to have another baby anyday (due date last week) and am quite scared at how I will cope. At the moment I have to have someone pick him up from pre school as he just runs off and I am unable to run being so pregnant!

It gets me down and whilst I wouldn't change him for the world, I do wonder how on earth how we can calm him down. Maybe we just have exceptionally bright children?

So sympathies...you are not alone, although I wish I had some advice for you!...

Thanks mum2sons..
wehn ds was 18months we had to put him in a bed as he used all his bedding to climb out fo the cot.. But got stuck straddled on the rail!! We do use a stairgate on his room though, and he hasnt used his books a ladder so that is something to be greatful for.

But they do sound very similar.

The amount of times I have had to go sprinting after ds with the pushchair.. the other day whilst I was talking to the nursery teachers he walked of.. I was annoyed that no parents had stopped him.. he was nearly home by the time I got him... .. Luckily we are on a camp and no busy roads.. (which he didt cross any anyway,, thank god)

My dd (11years) was wlike your ds1 she would aske permission to go to the toilet..etc.. if she wasnt tired would lie in bed for up to 2 hrs reading or just stareing into space trying to sleep. I fi sad no to some or asked her to do something.. she stopped and did it.. as she still does now..

If it is any consiltation.. DS doesnt seem to be any worse than before the baby came, just no better.. He dant grasp that babys need to sleep during the day though.. and shouts into the playpen or push chair.. "wake up baby Lee the sky is awake".. musch to my annoyance as it will have taken me 15-30mins to settle him... But I dont punish him I just say mammy has to cuddle baby Lee now to settle him again as he is a baby and still needs to sleep lots during the day and night.. as you did when you were a baby." Scott may then ask for a cuddle which he gets one side of me and the baby gets the other.

Oh I don't like that 'you make me feel sad/happy' thing from the nursery'. What a burden making the adults happiness dependent on the child's behaviour.

Although I thoroughly agree with 'Look, Charlotte is sad because you snatched the truck from her'

Agree with the exercise thing. Someone on MN once compared boys, esp 3 yr olds to dogs, they need a good run around every day. When DS was three on days when we couldn't go out because the weather was too horrible or DD was napping we used to do dancing.

Mum2sons has got a point looking on the bright side, your DSs sound very independent and are not going to let themselves be doormats when they grow up.

And don't beat yourself up about it 2+1. The fact that you are on here asking for advice shows you are a caring mum.

My DS2 also sees any opportunity to run away when I am talking to a teacher/another mum and that is why I have to get someone else to pick him up (for the time being anyway!)

Interesting about your DD1. Again, my DS1 is such a good boy although turning a bit adolescent now. He takes no as no and accepts it and always has.

We have the same thing in the mornings with him coming in our room, turning all the lights on and saying "it's wake time"! Drives us demented! I can imagine he will be doing the same to our new baby as to yours.

Any door that is left open, he goes through and a few weeks back we were at pizza express and he would not sit at the table and kept running to the revolving doors which led out onto a busy road
if we get cross he thinks it is funny. We have a star chart and have employed tactics that would make supernanny want to give us her job but nothing works.

I really hope we can look back and laugh at all this one day. They will probably be mountaineerers (sp) or champion sky divers or another risk taking type thing.
I just worry about keeping him safe until then..

mum2sons- I ment to say earlier good luck with the impending birth..

LOl at what you are saying about there future jobs.. our ds could be twins .... It is right what you say worry about keeping them safe....

Unforyunatly today we never got shopping as dd came down with the sickness bug when she came home from music school.. DS1 went to bed and has just 10mins ago woken up and threw up everywhere.. so I have them both lying on a sofa each so I can keep my eye on them both.. dh is away for the night.. so Ih ave kept baby upstairs.. he normally sleep through so will just listen for him on the monitor.. cant see me getting much sleep tonight bless them both..

Hi 2plusone,

It was quite bizzare reading your post, it sounds like you were discribing MY 3 year old son.

I have 3 boys, 10, 3 and 5 months old and like you I spend most of the time on my own with them. The other 2 are great, the baby is just so good and 10 yr old is a star but we have nicknamed 3 yr old Taz because he is just like him.

He is great at nursery (once I get him in there) and as soon as I go he stops crying, but I know exactly how you feel. I dread taking him shopping because he either wanders off and refuses to come back when I call him or he throws major strop when I drag him away from toys/sweets etc.
He plays with toys ok but HAS to have the room he is in, littered with everything he can get his hands on, he throws everything on the floor.

He too refuses to sit with us at meal times, he will happily snack through the day but, despite shutting door so he cant leave the room or threatening him with bed, no sweets, no tractor(his new toy) he still will not sit and eat a meal.
He CONSTANTLY aggrivates his older brother, he jumps on him or turns the telly over if Ds1 is watching something.
What you said about hearing too was REALLY amazing because he too is under speech therapy, he has had his hearing checked which they say is fine BUT nursery pulled me up when he first started because he got really upset when the children started singing loudly to music and making a lot of noise, they too thought he had sensitive hearing and suggested a hearing test. He FREAKS if a loud jet goes over the house or a fire alarm goes off, even when I hoover I have to warn him to go into another room with his brother. It was so strange reading that your ds was the same.

I have tried everything to get him to behave, and believe me I know how hard it is to try doing it alone, but dont feel like you are doing something wrong. I think middle children can be more of a handfull sometimes and im pretty sure a lot of behaviour is to get attention because he is pretty good when he is on his own.

He has been quite poorly and I am so glad that he is back to his normal self after seeing him so ill but his behaviour does get VERY waring and I really hope that it is just a phase that they go through.

Dont be too hard on yourself and try not to worry what other people are thinking when they do their "party tricks" in the middle of Tesco, I was so paranoid when he first started, now I just ignore him AND the snooty people who look at you as if you are worst parent in the world.

Like you have said, they dont do this for other people so it is purely for our benefit and I am pretty sure (well praying to be honest) that they will grow out of it.

I don't think anyone has mentioned yet that it is quite normal for childrens to 'save' their worst behaviour for their parents. When they are in childcare they restrain themselves a little because they sense the carers are not going to love them regardless of their behaviour. With parents they feel secure enough to be themselves.

We see this alot when the DCs have stayed with the grandparents for a few days. They come back with a glowing report and then are really hard work for us for a couple of days before things settle down.

It is really interesting 2plusone and cantseemyfeet that all our very lively boys have older siblings with quite a big age gap (my DS1 is 9 plus years older). Also all middle children (mine about to be a middle child!)

Last night DS2 was a nightmare and would not go to sleep yet again. He also drives his older brother mad and like you, cantseemyfeet, turns the telly over, destroys things in his room and "bundles" him at every opportunity!

I am just hoping I have a window of opportunity to go into labour soon as am now 5 days past my due date, planning a homebirth but with the little sleep that DS is having at the mo, I will literally have to schedule the birth into a very small time frame!

I hope your DC's get over their sickness bug quickly 2plusone x

mum2sons-and cantseemyfeet... the three of them really are peas in a pod.. DS1 loves nothing more than aggrivating dd, wrecking her room..etc and not letting her watch her programmes.. I did solve this by giving her cable in her room.. but she still insists on trying to watch it downstairs..!! I am so glad I am not the only one with my own personal TAZ.
mum2sons.. sending you lots of abour vibes hun.. hopefully your will be a quick labour and delivery... (my delivery time was 2mins.. from first push to second..he came out on the second.. was in hospital 11hrs from labour to going home)..

Can you imagine if all 3 met up?? There wouldnt be a shred of sanity left between us!
Mum2sons: Really hope baby makes an appearance soon. I was 10 days over with my last 2 babies but they were both quick. 2+1 you had exactly the same kind of birth I had with last one it was unbelievably quick, I was still standing and his head shot out when waters broke(his hand was on his head too) 2 minutes, 2 pushes and out he shot! Really hope yours is like that m2s and I wouldnt worry about DS2 waking up, there will be too much going on for him to start playing up. Do you have someone on stand by to help you with him??
Ds2 is really good with baby too, I was worried he was going to torture him like he does his older brother but thankfully he is pretty good with him (although would not leave them alone together) He can be a bit overbearing when giving kisses and cuddles and baby just growls at him its so funny.

I too am having trouble getting him to sleep through the night. He either falls asleep through the day and is wide awake till 10 oclock or if I manage to keep him awake all day (like I have today) he falls asleep really early evening and then wakes up by 11 oclock(like he has now.)
I have tried to put him back to bed countless times but he kicks up such a fuss he wakes baby up so he is currently sat next to me watching The Wild.