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Parenting

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Original poster

I need some advice with DD1 ! She's driving me absolutely bonkers !

46 replies

FoghornLeghorn · 17/01/2008 08:31

DD1 is 3 1/2 and is pushing me constantly at the minute.

She currently goes to pre-school, 5 afternoons a week 12.30 - 3pm. Pre-school is really taking it out of her, she is exhausted when she comes home and miserable to match. I deliberately do nothing too physical with her in the mornings or she souldn't making it through the afternoon. She has been going since September and although DD1 seemed to be manging better, since going back after Christmas we are back to square one with the tiredness.

For the last week or so she has taken to answering me back with "No" or "I don't want to" or just an ear piercing scream if I ask her to stop pushing her sister around or share her toys sit nicely at the table or wait for 2 minutes before I can make her a drink.
DH & I have done smacking (really doesn't work and just makes us feel terrible), the naughty step (she just gets up), counting to 3 (we get to 2, she stops, we stop counting, she starts again), sending her upstairs to her room (she comes down within a matter of seconds, aplogising then goes right back to doing it again).

I don't think the bad behaviour is down to tiredness as she goes to bed at 7p.m, we read books, sometimes she plays quietly in her room for a while but is always asleep my 7p.m - she gets up at 6.15ish.

What else can I try ? I know some people suggest ignoring the bad behaviour and praising the good but how can I ignore her screaming at the top of her lungs at me (I have no doubt the neighbours can hear) or pushing her sister over etc.
I have sent her to her room already this morning for saying no and the screaming at me, she came back down, said "sorry mum i'll start being good now" and for the moment she is sitting doing a jigsaw puzzle but it wont last long.

All suggestions welcome

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Original poster

FoghornLeghorn · 17/01/2008 08:33

Sorry, she is always asleep by 7.30pm

OP posts:

pukkapatch · 17/01/2008 08:34

ignore her.

pukkapatch · 17/01/2008 08:36

develp a very thick skin. keep sister out of harms way, but remember a little sibling bashing wont kill her either, but make her tougher, but just ignore the bad behaviour. not for her sake, but your own.
#me, im on mumsnet right now, studiously ingroing ds1's bad behaviour. although in four minutes i will have to stop, and get them off to school.

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LoveMyGirls · 17/01/2008 08:40

I think you need to choose one method and stick with it, in our house it's time out which mean sitting at the bottom of the stairs and being ignored for a couple of mins then going back in if she isn't ready to say sorry and be good she stays there and so on usually the most we have to go back in is 3 times before she realises saying sorry is a good idea. Dd2 is 2.4yrs.

itwasntme · 17/01/2008 08:43

My dd is similar.. she goes into meltdown when tired.

Sticker charts with the promise of something really cool, like a trip to the aquarium work well. Failing that, when she is really vile, the only thing that works is confiscating her favourite things for a week or so.. like her scooter.

Original poster

FoghornLeghorn · 17/01/2008 08:48

We have tried removing things itwasntme and although she is absolutely hyseterical at the thought of it being removed, she seems to forget after a an hour or so.

Lovemygirls - we don't try all of these things randomly, sorry my post didn't make that very clear - I meant it general over the years we have tried all of those things, not just in the last week or so.

PukkaPatch - Should I really just ignore her screaming at the top of her lungs at me ?
DD2 is pretty tough, she gives as good as gets when DD1 picks on her.

Yesterday I had to shut the door on the both (they were in the lounge) and stay in the kitchen for a couple of minutes to cool off.

OP posts:

yawningmonster · 17/01/2008 08:56

We put removed items in plain view but not reach on top of the tv which usually results in an on and off again all day winge I want it back now...well ds you ....at me so that went up there, it will come down tomorrow when you remember to....
Also found making a bit of a deal with him helped eg our rules were
Use kind words to others
Use kind/gentle hands with others
Be gentle with the things around us
If ds gets one sticker for each of these things in a day he gets 30 minutes mummy or daddy time which he can completely dictate the activities for.

FrannyandZooey · 17/01/2008 08:57

"Pre-school is really taking it out of her, she is exhausted when she comes home and miserable to match"

how about cutting down on pre-school? this seems to be the problem

Original poster

FoghornLeghorn · 17/01/2008 09:25

Can I do that though Franny ?
She is starting reception in September so surely she needs to get used to pre-school or she'll never cope going full time in reception

OP posts:

PestoMonster · 17/01/2008 09:38

I would swap the afternoons at pre-school for morning sessions.

Original poster

FoghornLeghorn · 17/01/2008 09:44

I can't pesto - there were on afternoon sessions available. We moved here in July so had to take what was available

OP posts:

PestoMonster · 17/01/2008 09:50

You could enquire again, things might have changed since July?

[hopeful emoticon]

Original poster

FoghornLeghorn · 17/01/2008 09:51

I can try ... I will ask when we go to school today

OP posts:

PestoMonster · 17/01/2008 09:51

Good luck!

bozza · 17/01/2008 10:10

Personally I do not think she is getting enough sleep. My DD is the same age and she seems to be going through a really tired phase at the moment. She is in bed by 7.30 at the latest and not up until 7, but recently we have started getting her down by 7 on some days. She goes to day nursery 3 full days when I work and on some of the other days or at weekends she will have a nap as well. Sometimes she is so tired that she actually asks to go to bed.

If you could manage to swap to morning pre-school sessions (always more popualar so difficult) then she could maybe have a couple of naps a week.

And when my daughter is sent to the step or her room she stays there until I decide she is ready to join us again. I'm not sure your DD is not turning it into a bit of a game.

Also do you manage to have one on one time with her at all? Maybe some positive attention from you could pay off?

bozza · 17/01/2008 10:12

Forgot to add, it is a difficult time when they start pre-school or school. The amount of brain power they expend seems to tire them out. DS was awful at home for the first term of reception, despite loving school. Sounds like it is a similar thing with your DD.

Original poster

FoghornLeghorn · 17/01/2008 10:13

Hi Bozza
I will try bringing her bedtime forward to 7 but surely that will just make her wake up even earlier wont it ?
There is no way I can get her to nap - she just refuses point blank. They only time she will drop off to sleep is in the car if we've been out to the park or something.

We have one on one time most days - DD2 goes down for a sleep in the morning so I usually get at least an hour just with DD1 every day.

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Original poster

FoghornLeghorn · 17/01/2008 10:14

Oh yes Bozza, she adores pre-school. I had to keep her off for 3 days before she was due to break up for half term back in October as there were building works at the school and she sobbed - she loves going.

OP posts:

bozza · 17/01/2008 10:21

It just sounds like it is really taking it our of her mentally. Yes putting her to bed early could be a problem if she won't stay in bed. Anyway you could work on her getting up a bit later? 6.15 does sound quite early and make for a long morning before pre-school.

Other than that it sounds like you are doing all the right things, and will just have to wait for her to adjust.

IdrisTheDragon · 17/01/2008 10:23

Does she need to go to five sessions at pre-school? When she does go to school, she will be a bit older - I don't think they need to go to all five sessions to be able to cope at school when they start.

DS has recently started at school mornings only (our school lets them start the term after they are 4 and they do two terms of mornings, and then in the third term go full time) and I am glad that I didn't have him doing five sessions at pre-school ever.

Original poster

FoghornLeghorn · 17/01/2008 10:23

How on earth do I work on her sleeping in longer in the morning though ? Would putting her to bed later help ? Although I don't think either of us could cope with that ...

OP posts:

Lazycow · 17/01/2008 10:41

foghornleghorn

My ds (3.2) is very similar at the moment and I KNOW this is because he isn't getting enough sleep. He is in full time nursery 4 days a week (this has increased recently) and I notice that on my days off he has started to have a nap again (he falls asleep in the pushchair or car, something he rarely does unless exhausted) or if he doesn't have a nap he will be asleep (without protest) by 6.30pm.

He usually wakes up at 6 or 6.30am, regardless of bedtime. On Nursery days his bedtime is more usually 7.30pm or so but his wake-up time is the same.

In fact over the holidays we had a a couple of later nights (on Christmas day and New Year's day) and he went to bed at 9pm a couple of evenings. Both those times he slept a bit later, but not enough to make up for it (got up at 7amish both times) ansd was incredibly griumpy, whingy and uhappy both the following days.

I also noticed that if he continues to not get enough sleep he starts to get up at 5am or 5.30am and it is difficult to correct this problem as it starts a vicious circle of grumpiness and early waking.

I personally would try and change the sessions to morning if possible and allow her to go to bed a bit earlier for a week or so and see how you go ot allow her to take a nap a few times a week if that suits your family situation better.

Another possibillty is to keep her home a couple of time a week for a while. You can speak to the nursey about this and let them know what you are doing. As she gets older she will be able to cope with this better and you can increase the sessions again.

As ds is at nursery for me to work I don't have the luxury of cutting back his hours significantyl but I am currently leaving work early every day for a few months so I can collect him early and get him to bed a bit earlier for a while until he gets a bit older and more able to cope.

bozza · 17/01/2008 10:54

Well foghorn I tell mine that they are not allowed to get up until their light comes on at 7 am. That is how I do it. But they have both had this method since they went into beds aged 2 and so are used to it, and obviously your DD isn't. But you could try this or the bunny clock, and maybe aim for 6.30 initially.

I still think though that sometimes they are tired, no matter how much sleep they have had. And obviously tiredness is only part of the issue. I find my DD is naughtier on nursery days, and sometimes I think it is a backlash from having to behave all day at nursery IYSWIM.

Astrophe · 17/01/2008 11:28

nO ADVICE, but sympathy. You are not alone, and its not your fault. My dd is also 3.5 and is totally foul at the moment - she doesn't listen to a word I say, wont answer simple questions except with "okay", and is nasty to her brother. I am at my wits end, can't think of what to do apart from ride it out without killing her.

We read 'How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk", which was helpful (must re read it), if only because it gave me something to cling to instead of shouting.

Astrophe · 17/01/2008 11:32

oh, I second the idea of cutting back on nursery, if your situation allows. Being 3 is not a practice for being 4 - if she needs less stimulation now, then thats what she needs, regardless of what she may be doing next year. (Although I do understand where you are coming from with building her stamin for school in sept, I personally think it is fuzzy logic. Also, September is a long way off).

Having said that, If my DD was home more, it would give her more opportunitues to wind me up, and me more time to shout, so maybe it wont work so well!

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