Ds obsessed with rules, winning and fairness

[Petcarb]

Really struggling with DS 6 obsession with things having to be fair and anger and upset with other kids not following the rules. Even in simple playground games I've seen him get in a real state about it, when obviously there aren't any real formal rules. It's causing issues because he's either getting upset if he thinks others have cheated or he says he doesn't want to play in the first place. He hates loosing which I think might be behind it but he seems to have a real obsession with whether things are fair. Any tips on how to try and help him manage his frustration? We've tried to explain it's ok to feel anger, but not ok to shout, it's supposed to be fun and it doesn't matter who wins. Everyone forgets the rules sometimes when they're having fun and that's ok but I don't think any of it is helping. I'm worried how much impact it'll be having in school when I'm not there to try and manage it.

We struggle with this with my DS. No advice I’m though afraid. Have you mentioned it to school? Might it give you piece of mind if you know they’re keeping an eye out at playtime at least? We just keep reminding him of all the things you said you do yourself.

Could you role play situations where rules change at home? Or even play a game where you are playing something random made up, and one of the rules is every minute someone gets to add a new rule or remove it. Then he can start to see that changing rules is part of the rules in some way.
I think getting the anger out in a safe space with you might prepare him for the faster moving world with the other kids.
Sounds tough though, good luck

My Ds1 was very much like this at primary school. He lashed out on a dinner supervisor once because she 'overruled' him. The school got him to take part in an in school anger management course. I enrolled him into judo lessons and he decided to take part in club rugby. All elements seem to have helped. He is 26 now and the most placid character you could wish for.

My DS was exactly like this at primary school. He still sometimes has a tendency to overreact if he thinks something is unfair but he is much better now. He loves games so we played loads of games and resisted the temptation to let him win so he had no choice but to be a good loser if he wanted us to keep playing with him!

There's lots of games he can beat me at now and he is a very humble winner and loser most of the time. He only really gets upset with friends who break the rules or cheat. I try to look at it like he has a good sense of justice ⚖️ 😊

One child I know that was like this with football, wanting every single rule infringement dealt with, was enrolled into an umpire course and being taught the importance of having the game flow versus stopping the game for infringements taught him the value of moderation and letting small things go.

Maybe something like that, finding out what is important while he is playing. Discussing what is important to others when they play. Then seeing how 'strict rule following' could hinder that playtime and stop people having fun, so they won't want to play with him.

Is his obsession with fairness and rule keeping all the time, or just if he loses after something he sees as unfair?
Is he ok with losing "fair and square" ? What happens if he wins and someone else says it wasn't fair for whatever reason?

My seven year old is similar without the obsession of winning. Everything has to be fair and he gets very upset by other kids breaking the rules, cheating, doing the wrong thing. He used to be a sore loser as a 3-5 year old but now much better.

Im following because our life isn’t always fair conversations aren’t working.

Hi, @Petcarb—
How are you & DH about schoolwork and grades (sorry, marks)? Are you strict? Encouraging? Do you encourage your son to always do well and get good grades/marks?

My father was a bit disinterested, but my mum was, I guess you could say, extremely encouraging. From the age of five to the age of eighteen, she recited this to me every single solitary school day: Good, better, best — never let it rest — until your good is better, and your better best. Every. Day.

And that’s supposed to convey to always be the best person or scholar or dancer or bartender you can be. However, after hearing that for years, it triggered in me the pressure that I had to be PERFECT in everything and everything around me had to be PERFECT.

So your son sounds sort of like me — I had to kick the furthest. The lines we stood in had to be straighter than the other lines. I had to read more books over the summer. 100% on every test or paper was the only acceptable score. Rules had to be strictly followed, even card or board games and if they weren’t, there was hell to pay, courtesy me.
The pressure I put on myself because of my mother’s “encouragement” was so massive that I literally made myself ill, both physically and mentally.

Then, one day out of the blue, I just stopped caring. And quit. I quit worrying about life and the people around me and I quit caring about everything that mattered to me.

I realized I might need some help, so I found a shrink and after a few years, I figured out that what you think is encouragement, your child might interpret as pressure if they can’t provide or produce it for you.
And your son reminded me of me.
I think I’m a severe case, but I wanted to share that with you. And I’m doing beautifully now.

Thanks so much for all the responses, it's comforting to know it's not just him if that's ok to say, but I'm sorry others are struggling too. I don't think we have overly high expectations of school work or anything, probably the opposite really, he struggled with writing reading etc so we've been really enthusiastic about efforts. (We do have dyslexia, dyspraxia in family so conscious this may be something that needs investigating.) It's more that he just seems to dwell on things, can't let them go. Other kids will seem happy to move on or see the bigger picture, ok that wasn't fair but we still got a point so who cares, whereas he'll still be stuck on the fact that it wasn't fair and can't let it go. He's an anxious little thing anyway who struggles with social interactions so just don't think it's helping him. It's been really helpful to put it down in writing as I think it's a wider issue of dwelling on things and not being able to move on or put them in perspective and something we really need to think about how we can help him. Thanks everyone!

Not one to jump to ASD immediately but just wondering if the rigidity to rules and inflexibility of play happens in other areas of life and not just playground games? If so and as you also mention social communication difficulties and anxiety, might be worth ruling out.

My son at 6 was exactly the same. ASD was never on our radar as I assumed it was fairly normal but as time went on I realised he was getting more rigid and upset as he got older rather than less! He was diagnosed with ASD at 8.

I’m not usually one to jump on the bandwagon but if this is happening alongside other concerning behaviours it could be a sign of ADHD. My son with ADHD started off this way, he was obsessed with things being “fair” and tried to be very bossy and controlling when playing with friends. He was also very gifted in sports but only coped in very controlled scenarios with strong leadership ( where he understood exactly how things would be) he just couldn’t manage in a more relaxed fun activity.

I run a beaver group, 6-8yr olds.
This cohort are extremely challenging for this. It's very noticeable in the 6 yr olds.

I would suggest playing lots of board games, card games and other types of family games with him.
Model the behaviour you want when loosing.
Cheat
(Card game) is a good one.

Sorry posted early.
I'd also treat any behaviour you see like this as 'naughty' and follow your usual sanctions.

I think that the lockdown has a lot to answer with this. Children were not socialising and learning to deal with this stuff at play school/ nursery.

No advice to add sorry but my client friend’s daughter was very into ‘fairness’ & ‘rules’ age 6/7 and is completely neurotypical: I think it’s a phase related to that age

I think ASD shouldn't be ruled out.

I know a kid (aged 7) with a similar inability to integrate what's important socially into play, and who seeems to seek the predictability of rules, and has recently been diagnosed.

You need to let him learn how to lose.

I would add a rule in that if he doesn’t lose gracefully then he gets a two week ban from that game. put a label on the game and date. Put it on a high shelf.
Play a different one.
I would then start the game with the same rules. Win nicely and say well done good game to the loser, or lose badly it’s in the sin bin.

Model the behaviour! I really enjoyed playing with you. I like it when we laugh.

Please don’t do this.

Your little boy is expressing his anxiety, don’t punish him for it.

Occupational therapists use little comic strip style drawings to create stories about one incident going different ways eg. child upset by something another child says, hits them, child b cries and tells, child a punished and upset.

Switch slide 2 for child a walking away/saying something assertive and let’s see what the rest of the slides look like.

It’s a way for the children to learn to consider alternative behaviour and see where it is likely to end up, can alleviate the anxiety.

After your update I would agree with others than it would be worth considering ASD. My DC is Autistic and finds losing so hard he often refuses to take part.

Thanks for the follow up, yes have wondered about ASD, there are some symptoms that do seem to match up, though not all. I think we'll have to work on helping with the anxiety and speak to Senco at school. They've expressed no concerns which makes me wonder if he manages better there, but it's just worrying me to see him getting upset. Thanks everyone

My DC masks very well at school, it was only lockdown that made us realise he was really struggling. It’s not just girls who can be good at masking.

It's acceptable for boys to really want to win and to take over rule announcement and enforcement in games, which allows some boys to fly under the radar.

If a girl had this behaviour it would be flagged, but in boys it can be seen as leadership and ambition.

I know this thread is old but OP I’d love to know how you’re going with this now. I have a 5-yr-old boy and the exact same issue. It’s worrying me hugely. I don’t know what to do.