The third child

[Pear21]

Please can anyone offer some advice on our third child. In many ways she seems very grown up - her speech and understanding is brilliant for example as she has learnt from her older siblings.

However, we are also struggling with a few things, she is 3 and not potty trained. Has absolutely no interest in the toilet. We’ve delayed starting due to this and illness of her and various family members. Also, we need to be in the car to drop off siblings to school (5 miles away so can’t walk) and take siblings to clubs etc so what do we do? Take the nappy on and off all the time doesn’t seem the right thing?

She refuses to walk anywhere. I have to take the pram because she will scream and shout carry, carry and stomp her feet etc - again it’s hard to deal with this and be consistent because we have to be at school on time or the other kids have gone ahead - so I end up giving in and carrying her to catch up with them.

She will only eat in front of tv - in the mornings I say no one can watch tv until you’re dressed and eaten breakfast. She will sit at the table and watch her siblings eat and then only ask for food after everyone else is watching tv. I let the older 2 watch tv so I can get dressed as we have no help in the mornings.

Im struggling to fill the day with activities. We generally do one activity in the morning eg park or soft play and go home for lunch. But after lunch we only have 2 hours until we have to go back to school not long enough to go anywhere but too long to do nothing in the house.

She only likes each activity for 5-10 minutes. 12-14 hours to fill each day. She does have 15 hours of nursery a week but the rest of the time we are together. I don’t have any hobbies etc and I’m always playing taxi driver to the older kids

her siblings don’t play with her much anymore because she’s usually stealing their toys/wrecking their games on purpose or crying that she has to share my attention. She’s also in the totally irrational phase where she cries for no reason and cannot be reasoned with.

Not sure what I’m looking for with this post? Any tips or suggestions? Survival strategies? Tips for dealing with multiple kids of different ages at the same time? Thanks

Anyone?

Is it all on you or do you have a DP? Just thinking of options for the morning.

Could you take her out walking in the 2 hrs post lunch maybe?

Is she tired, does she sleep well - she sounds a lot like my DC1 at that age who woke super early and was always tired. I totally hear you on the 5-10 minute thing, it’s exhausting.

Thanks for replying. I do have a DP but he leaves for work before the kids are up.

good point on the walking in the afternoon- I definitely need to do some exercise as I’ve gained a bit of weight. I’m struggling to walk because DD3 won’t walk and moans and cries if she’s in the buggy longer than 10 mins. I’m so bored of all the routes we did in lockdown.

she does sleep well usually but often won’t go to bed until late (for a 3 year old) because she knows the older siblings are still up, if we take her up to bed at say 730-8ish she’s often awake until 930-10 (we have a good routine with stories etc and she doesn’t nap in the daytime)

poor child is constantly being put in and out of the car, often without lunch or breakfast (having sat at the table but refused to eat) taking the older siblings places

its all really stressful at the minute, she’s a great child and my whole world but……

Can't you up the nursery to 30 hours? Does she do all 15 hours in 2 days or is it spread across week? Is she age 3 as in preschool age or will she start that from September?

I have a third who was (is) also hard work. I think you are giving her too much power. Give her breakfast with the others, that’s the time to eat it. If she’s not eaten it clear it away THEN put the telly on.

Don’t carry her. Walk, and take the buggy. She either walks or goes in the buggy, if she screams she screams. Be consistent.

Enforce bedtime better, that is way too late and she must be shattered. What does she do when she’s up there but awake?

we used to go out in the mornings, home for lunch and then watch tv or do craft/den building etc etc in the afternoons before pick up. It Sibérie do bigger trips ie train to the seaside to get back in time for pick up.

Does sounds like she may benefit from more nursery hours though

I got my girl new shoes that lit up when she walked, she left the buggy forever. Do potty training over the summer vacation. Over 2 week time. It's soon. Don't stress yourself. For the food the advice above is good, it will break your heart at the beginning, but children don't need to learn how to eat. They just need to be hungry, she will eat when she discovers the feeling. All the best op. Be positive always. Its a sweet child she has a lot to learn and you will support her through it. Make sure you are well rested when you start implementing.

OP it sounds like you aren't being consistent. Being carried, watching tv and later bedtime you are giving in on all of them if she screams loud enough.

Take the pushchair and she either walks or goes in the pushchair, or howis she on a scooter or balance bike?

Tv after breakfast, if she doesn't eat then she needs to go upstairs with you while you get ready if she hasn't eaten.

Bedtime, why not just do her bedtime later so you don't create an argument evrery night?

Sometimes you have to pick your battles, and at this age you need to get her out of this cycle of screaming for what she wants. When my DD went through this stage we used to say we couldn't hear her if she shouted and would ignoreher until she calmed down enough to talk instead of scream

Thanks. Yes you might be right about too much power. I think the routines we have now are result of lockdown, and basic survival mode of looking after all the kids. DP does help loads when he’s home. But for example he might take DS2 to basketball class which is a big help as I don’t need to take the other siblings with me but means he won’t return home until 8pm so I’m on my own with DD3 6am to 8pm on some days. It’s exhausting. Can only get 15 hours of nursery.

Thanks all. I think with the screaming it’s hard because the other kids are affected by her. Unless I remove her and put her in her bedroom to cry what else can I do?

Some people have said bedtime is too late - 7.30-8?? What time should she be going to bed? She has stories and then lies in bed and chats away - but we have to sit with her, otherwise she screams and we can’t get the older children settled.

she did used to go in the buggy at the time but now I want to try and get her out of it she’s really resisting.

yes will try potty training soon, just can’t face all 3 kids being stuck at home inside for 2 weeks while we do it, though I know it has to be done obviously

I think the issue is you're not holding any boundaries. You say no TV til food is eaten, then you let her eat in front of the TV. You say she has to walk and then you carry her. You take her up to bed and then let her mess about for hours before sleeping. She's basically learnt that if she throws a fit or waits you out, she'll get exactly what she wants.

Lots of practical advice here and don't have much to add... but my middle child is 3 and 3 year olds suck! As in they physically suck the life out of you.

The tantrums, meltdowns and bloody mindedness is exhausting.

My 3 year old is approaching 4 and I feel like the tantrums are getting less, he's getting better at articulating his feelings verbally and becoming (slightly) more reasonable.

I think most of this is age... but I have also been very careful not to cave into the tantrums (though sometimes I will actively avoid them by picking my battles) and maintaining boundries on the important things (safety, aggression, etc).

We still have a way to go but I do finally feel like there is hope.

I think to an extent this is normal three year old behaviour but yes I see what you mean. Feeling rubbish now

We had the same problem for potty training so picked Easter weekend to tackle with DS2. We were all home for 4 days no car required. By the end of the 4 days we were sure he could hold for an hour or two if he went for a wee before leaving. I'd look for a gap like that - summer holidays/bank holidays.

If not successful in the 3/4 days, go back to nappies until the next.

I think 7:30/8 bedtime is fine if she is tired and going to sleep. My dd had lights out at 8pm at that age, but we don't stay with her and never have. She can play in her room if she wants but rule has always been she can't leave the room, at 3yo she still had a stairgate on her door.

You need to start setting boundaries and sticking to them, you hqve 3 children and everything revolves around 1

6.30/7pm bedtime would be ideal for a 3yo.

Tbh you say the others are bothered by her screaming, if you are cicatrisèrent and exilai she’s screaming as she wants her own way but it’s not always possible so they realise it’s anger not distress they’ll be fine. And it should settle quickly.

Bedtime routine needs sorting though, put her down, story, cuddle then lights off and close door. If she gets up no eue contact, back to bed, rinse and repeat. It may take a few nights but you’ll get there.

She is likely to be happier once boundaries are in place and she knows what’s what, and the other DCs will be (and will give you more breathing space too).

It sounds like fear of screaming has been the driving force, so lose the fear.

Good luck

Stop taking the buggy, could she take a scooter instead? We have a double buggy as both DC are very young, but if I know the trip we're taking is manageable for my 2 year old, I will only take the single buggy with the buggy board, so she has no choice but to walk or sit on her buggy board. Been doing that for a few months, and she's now perfectly u happy to walk for a couple of hours!

My daughter is 2 and 2 months. The 4th. For bed time it's "rinse and repeat". By the third night you will be over with. The thing is not to talk and be as calm as a cucumber. I hugged her if she yelled, very briefly and put her gently to bed. I had teenagers with exams. Everybody needs to sleep at a sensible time. Lights out, close the door and do your stuff. At some point I would say "It's bed time." Now I ask her "Do you want to go to bed" and she would say "yes". She expects the routine. One less hurdle. It's a three night thing. The first night prepare yourself though, you might have to put her back 20 times. For real. So what they hare strong willed? They will need it to do lots in life. Big hugs OP.

I really think tiredness is the root of a lot of this. Going to sleep 9.30-10 and waking at 6, that’s not enough sleep for a 3 yr old. She’s being difficult about eating and walking because she’s tired (and, of course, because she’s 3!!)

You have a choice on sleep, you could accept those hours at night and give her a long nap after lunch (possibly would require a long buggy walk or car drive to get her to nod off). But not ideal as at some point the nap will have to go.

Or you could try to get tougher about earlier sleep time. I would say at that age upstairs at 6.30, lights out by 7, no chatting or getting up after then.

Are the older ones able to occupy themselves while you do 3yo bedtime and stay with her to get her sleepy? Ideally the older ones would do something quiet (homework or tablet&headphones?) so your little one doesn’t hear fun going on.

She needs lots of biking and walking : it helps with sphincter control. It will go quickly - she's three - the 2 weeks is to make sure that you can move on to the next post without stress. But it's true its a weekend thing (with a few hit or miss).

As others have said, with a lot of this you need to be consistent and it might not be fun for a few days but the message will get through. On the potty training, I well know the feeling of worrying you’ve left it too late. I did that with my middle child. With you dd is there any scope for your husband or grandparents taking care of your older two over a weekend so that you and your daughter can stay at home and get two days of totally focused effort on the potty training under your belt. We had a happy accident of my older two being invited on a camping trip, my husband took them and my youngest and I stayed at home and did potty training. Obviously we didn’t nail it in two days (at all!!) but having those two days just the two of us, super calm, at home really set is off on the right foot. I honestly don’t know how I would have embarked upon it in the chaos of everyone being at home over the school holidays. So any window you can find where it could just be you and your daughter to start on it I would really recommend. Re the buggy, we also switched to a scooter. My youngest loves walking but at the pace of a snail. It’s fine when it’s just the two of us but when we’re doing the school run etc. we needed some speed and the scooter turned out to work well.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Will keep trying. If anything we’ve felt everything has revolved round the older kids not the youngest eg school pick ups, play dates, activities. I’ve tried a scooter and bike but she shows absolutely no interest unlike her other siblings who could bike and scoot all day at this age. Will keep trying and try and not lose the will to live, everything just seems like a huge struggle at the moment

It’s tough trying to balance older ones and younger ones on different hours.

When the holidays start, hopefully that means there are less activities and playdates and you can get her to bed earlier?

I wouldn’t try potty training until the sleep is better tbh. Tiredness = lots of afternoon accidents IME!!

Good luck. The juggling is tough at the best of times so it can feel really hard when you have to fit in something significant like potty training as well.