Is it meant to get harder at 4yo?

[NoClueWhatsWrong]

I read so much about terrible 2s and threenager but DS was all good. But I feel like I must be doing something wrong as now he is 4 it's a struggle.

In the day he is starting to misbehave a little. If we say no he'll shout and stamp his feet and say "I'm not listening to you" for example. We nip it in the bud, stay firm and consistent but it is exhausting. Getting dressed is a daily battle "I want daddy to do it" "I want mummy to do it" "no not these shorts" "ahhhh!". Still, he's mostly lovely, and no issues at nursery at all.

The main issue for me is sleep. He has slept 7pm to 7am for years with no issues. Now we have regular early wakes (between 5 and 6). He'll then be tired in the day and much irritable. If we're home, he'll invariably crash on the sofa for a nap at some point.

He also plays up more at bedtime and will sometimes wake in the night. When he does, we take him back and offer to lie with him until he's back to sleep. Now he will kick off that he wants to come in our bed and sometimes hits when I say no. He will then do a loud fake cry and won't be satisfied til he knows he's woken up the whole household.

I've just been on the floor next to him for the last hour. I've come back to bed as he was in a deep sleep but I can hear him knocking on the wall so I guess he's awake again and will be through in a sec. I genuinely don't know what to do as I don't know if it's a behaviour issue at night or if he genuinely is struggling to sleep now and can't help it?

It's also weird as he will have weeks where he sleeps perfectly fine then it all goes wrong again. I used to put disturbed nights down to a virus when they were occasional but they are a bit too frequent for that now.

Thank you for reading this novel!

We had surprising success with one of those lamps that changes color when it's officially morning.

I didn't think DS would pay any attention but it worked like a charm. I'm not 100% sure he's getting enough sleep but he doesn't come through until it's time.

Ours is called hatch rest but I think there are others.

Thanks we've been thinking of getting one, I will order one today as I am so fed up. He went back to sleep at 3am, then walked in at 4.59 again and is up for the day. It's like he's become an insomniac. He's had barely 8 hours sleep, this is crazy.

Is he off to school in September? The run up to starting school and at least the first term, if not more, have always caused a big change in behaviour in our house - lots of separation anxiety, defiance, whinging and rubbish sleep. Could it be that?

This exact thing happened to us, it was like a switch flipped when our DD turned 4 and she was waking up lots where she'd been able to sleep through previously. Also night terrors started. Tried one of those colour lamps but it didn't work for us. A weighted blanket has been helpful with sleep & especially for the night terrors. It's horrible when they're so tired & cranky isn't it!

@Squashpocket yes he is. In fact he had a settling in session 2 weeks ago and behaviour that week was particularly challenging which I definitely put down to it. So I guess it might still be playing on his mind.

@Topjoe19 yes we've had the night terrors too. He has sometimes been shouting, kicking, screaming and doing the defiant behaviour while asleep. I remember doing this as a child too and the GP saying it was stress related. It must be the upcoming changes with school. I wouldn't mind as much if he didn't need the sleep but the fact we then have rubbish days with bad behaviour when we are sleep deprived ourselves is so hard!

We also had a run of terrible behavior in the run up to the start of school.

Sleep wise, push bedtime to 7.30pm, god love a groclock. My nearly 5 yr old knows she can be awake but not bother me until the colour changes. Often she falls back to sleep waiting.

Oh and the backchat at 4 makes my 20month old look like a saint when shes screaming on the floor.

Thank you so much, I really wonder if he'd follow the groclock bearing in mind the current defiant behaviour but it's worth a try.

We do also have a lot of whining and constant "I'm hungry". Not sure if there is a growth spurt at that age but if so it is lasting ages!

I have a 10m old who just started sleeping through finally so it's a little disheartening to now constantly be kept awake by the eldest... I'm more tired than when the baby was a newborn, at least then I had some crazy hormones keeping me going!

@OnlyFoolsnMothers sadly he's already going to bed at 8pm at the moment, gone are the days he could fall asleep at 7.30. Sometimes he will even still be awake at 8.30. It's just going so wrong, late bedtime, night wakes, and early starts. I feel like a failure!

Good to know we're not alone with the backchat!

Good luck!

As far as I recall we made a big thing about the lamp being exciting, let him choose the colors for night and morning, and also threatened dire consequences if he didn't follow it. But it took effect with surprisingly few problems. DS is mostly about as stubborn and willful as they come so it is possible!

Now he is 6 and if I forget to turn it on he reminds me, because he needs to know when it's morning.

To be fair Summer light nights and bright mornings make bed time tricky.
Ensure plenty of physical activity and don't worry he will find a better routine naturally- especially once school and Autumn come around.

We're having similar, although we always get behaviour regressions when big changes happen so I'm putting it down to the run up to school. Just trying to remain consistent and hoping it will pass soon.

Thanks @Aria999 it gives me hope!

@OnlyFoolsnMothers yes the hot weather didn't help as well. I don't want to wish summer away but sometimes I do a little :)

@Flowermarket good luck! Are you having night wakings as well? I think it's just been a tough year for my LO, we had a regression when his sibling was born, partly recovered and now it's probably school that's unsettling and it's worse than ever, bless him.

Us too, and my friend is having the same now with her DD. I think the big transition to school is a major factor. 'Fond' memories of carrying a kicking screaming DD out of m&s when trying on school pinafores went badly wrong, and of DS turning utterly demonic and trying to lob a kitchen chair at me.

They're actually lovely children...

Yep, we had a really unsettled few months leading up to school and during the first term.
it’s a massive change, they know it’s coming but they don’t really know what it will be like so I think children often have anxiety they can’t name about the whole thing. Which manifests itself in lots of ways .

I know it’s really tough but it sounds like you’re doing everything right, just roll with it and once he is settled at school I’m sure it’ll all calm down.

Thank you so much both, honestly it makes me feel so much better.

@AmbushedByCake I laughed at the kitchen chair incident, so relatable! I was honestly thinking I'd broken DS somehow as he seemed to have developed anger issues.

I'm feeding the baby and can hear DH trying to negotiate toothbrushing as DS is howling for no apparent reason and calling him a bum bum...

I found 4 worse than 2! I think they are getting more bored - they are ready for school all day. They are also more articulate than a 2 year old, and so are more capable of arguing and answering back!

DS just came in screaming and the baby got such a fright she bit down on my nipple and is now wide awake and screaming. What chaos, honestly up to recently it was bliss, I felt so smug...

The thought of it going on for a few more months is making me want to cry!

It's been polar opposites for my older 2.

The first was a handful until he hit 4, then he just became so much calmer, more compliant and just lovely. He's still that way aged 6. So easygoing and well behaved.

The second is currently 4 and was a placid, quiet, smiley baby and toddler. She was so sweet and angelic I thought I'd won the lottery. Now at 4 she is so much hard work. Plays up at bedtime, is constantly tired due to bad sleep, has mad screaming huffs about absolutely everything, won't eat ANY food except cheesy pasta, has so many toilet accidents because she just can't be bothered going, and the backchat is unbelievable! She's difficult to discipline because she's very sensitive and takes getting a row very badly.

I'm not sure how the 3rd is going to turn out but I'm hoping for a mix of all the good parts of the other two 😂

@ObviouslyNotAFan honestly you have perfectly described DS, including the cheesy pasta bit! This is the child who used to eat anything and everything. He's also very sensitive so if we tell him off he loses it completely.

My DD has just turned 4 and is similar although tbh she's always been a errrr spirited child. She slept perfectly between the age of 1 and 3 and then started periods of regular night waking. Touch wood the last few weeks have been much better than the months preceding them so I'm hoping we are out of the woods with that for the most part. We also have a baby, DS is 8m so I think some of her behaviour has been related to my pregnancy and then the arrival of DS. She absolutely adores him thankfully so her frustrations are just aimed at me and DH instead. Extremely irritating sometimes but glad none of it is directed to DS at least.

A few things that do help us are a Gro Blind on her bedroom window all summer, combined with blackout curtains. This mostly stops the early wakes. She also still has a baby gate on her bedroom door, this is mostly because her room is right at the top of the stairs and I worry about her falling down them whilst half asleep in the dark, but has the added bonus that she knows she can't get out of the room anyway so helps keep her in bed on the occasion that she wakes up too early and we tell her it's too early and to go back to bed. Also reward sticker charts have helped us with behaviour too, she's very motivated by them and generally manages to earn her stickers.

She's not going to school until September 2023 as we are sending her at 5 instead, I am very glad as do not feel she is at all ready emotionally.

Snap. Tricksy baby-toddler chilled out and really grew into himself at four. Sweet biddable charming baby-toddler is now four and SO MUCH DEFIANCE AND FURY. I think it'll pass. When she's 17 or so.