Am I too harsh?

[TalkToTheHand123]

I have a 6 year old daughter with my ex who I split up with last year. She behaves reasonably well when she's in school, but when I'm trying to get her to do something at home like get ready, she'll hit, kick and or bite me.

I've tried alsorts of nicely nice ways, but when pushed to my limit, I'll give her a time out. I don't care how long it takes, I'll do it, as the last time I did it, I believe it worked (it was a long time ago and I had no-one interfering with my methods).

I'm getting a bit fed up with family and others sticking their beak in (family / ex / teachers telling me I'm being too harsh when in their presense)

Is it me?

I forgot to add when she is having the time out she is screaming like mad but doing it for attention.

No. At this age they're best starting to learn from consequences.

Hitting, kicking and bitting really isn't normal behaviour for a 6YO IMO. Have you considered that there is something else going on here that can't be fixed with discipline alone? My 9YO DS is autistic, so I am automatically thinking about that. But you also mentioned you and her dad are separated. How has she coped with that? That's something pretty big for her to be dealing with at this age. What's the custody arrangement with her dad? What is she like with him, but also what does he expect from her?

I think there is more to this than just being naughty.

Do your family want her to hit or bite you?
Your trying to stop this behaviour so they should support you

I’m a bit confused. You say she is fine at school but teachers say you are too harsh - why fo they think you are too harsh? There is too little info here for anyone to make a judgment on.

She was like this before the separation, although obviously it will have an effect. She is used to seeing more people all at once. She has always broke down in tears when leaving family members. My ex is very unreliable which doesn't help. My daughter is very intelligent, but also very sensitive.

It is and it isn't normal behaviour, considering the situations. Otherwise she is a lovely girl.

She cried to the teacher because she thought I was taking her to my house and not my parents (where she can run rings around them and get her own way with everything). The teacher rang my ex to say what had happened. I just don't know why. I left a message to the school to ask why they did this and let them know I wasn't happy about it. They had even told my daughter she can ring my ex when we got home.

She does gymnastics on a Saturday arranged by my parents and I'm often on call for work, so I get stuck at my parents house, otherwise I wouldn't be there and would be able to deal with her better.

I've lost my rag a couple of times with them and they do think twice a little more before interfering, but they still do.

Time out is considered a punitive and outdated punishment these days and has little to no effect on long term behaviour of a child. Try ‘time in’ instead , once she has calmed down spend a few minutes doing something positive with her , whether that’s a short story , a cuddle , colouring etc etc any kind of behaviour from a child food or bad is trying to tell you something.
In the moment when she won’t get dressed , explain to her that you would like her to get dressed and offer help , if she refuses help get on with your morning routine and explain she needs to do it herself.
It sounds like you are in a negative rut of behaviour management and she knows it.

For what ever reason your daughter is struggling to manage her emotions. You need to lead by example. First of all cut her some slack, narrow it down to one or two behaviours you need to work on and let the others go for now. Be clear and consistent about expectations. Do what you can to manage her environment, for example if she needs routine and consistency make sure she gets it. If there are things she massively struggles with don't make her do them ie if she struggles with food shop get it delivered, or if she has to do it help her through it with a distraction. What you need to do is reduce her anxiety levels so life can be more manageable. Consistent discipline, 6 minute time out. No talking , discussion of behaviour just the time out then back to normal. No bring up past events ie 'you always do this...' once it's done, it's done. Work with school try to get to bottom of behaviour, is it sen? Mental health? Consider seeing a therapist with her. And if you struggle to manage your emotions too, counselling or a mindfulness or stress management course could really help. Phillipa Perrys book, the book you wished your parents had read is very good.

As is Ross greenes explosive child.

Also if she is distressed during time out I would stay with her. And after try to do something together, read a book etc.

Agree with @Cupcakegirl13 and @notgreatthanks.

Your daughter is angry and she needs firstly to be able to express that but not with aggression. Children need their emotions accepted but they need to learn that lashing out is not acceptable. The problem with time out is she feels you are punishing her feelings not her behaviour and she is still mad. You need to let her feelings settle and talk to her, it won't change over night. Parenting is a marathon not a sprint. Also lead by example. If she sees you loosing your rag when you're mad then what is she going to do?

Also I don't think it's not normal at the age of 6 to get physical when mad, I think it's very normal. They are still very young at 6.

So if she refuses to go to bed and it's 10pm, you recommend some 'time in' doing some activities?

If she refuses to get ready for school and doesn"t want to go, I should just get on with my morning tasks? I'm sure the school would love that.

SEN when she is top of her class but cries because she wants to go to her gran's but can't?

Councelling for losing my rag when it's 11pm and my dad is letting her play with dolls and it's school the next day?

I've never left her during time out as she never stays where she's been told. I wouldn't leave anyways. I just want her to calm down so I can explain to her that I won't accept her bad behaviour.

Than you Ganymedemoon for making me feel a bit more sane! I do sometimes overhear parents mentioning having issues with their kids, especially those where butter wouldn't melt.

I really dont understand the "time in" that pp suggested. So when they act out they get fun time after they calm down? How that is going to help and make it less confusing? These advices sounds great but who had experiences with difficult behaviour knows they are not possible. Kicking, hitting and biting is definitely not normal behaviour, and being too harsh or letting her "express her emotions" are not going to help. You are clearly not happy with your methods (hence the post) but I understand you struggle to handle the situation. This is a much more complicated issue and you shouldnt only work on how to handle the immediate situation.
"She has always broke down in tears when leaving family members"? Why is that? Is she craving for being surrounded by people all the time? Does she get bored easily? Are they overstimulate her or/and spoil her? Is she having a hard time to understand seeing family members is a treat and the every day situation is when you two are together?
"My ex is very unreliable which doesn't help." This is a big problem that clearly effects her a lot.
I think you need some professional help, as seems to me she doesnt really know how to communicate or express her feelings. I am sure it is not your fault ( every children is different) but I dont think you will be able to help it alone.

Coming on to recommend the Ross Green Explosive Child book, but a PP beat me to it.

My six year old is the same I'm afraid. No separation stuff here but two siblings (younger) very close in age to him and I think this is possibly the root of it. He is desperate to be in control but can't be so goes the opposite way and loses it completely.

Anyway, the book above is interesting, my main take away initially was that if what we were doing (time out style stuff and your basic threats of no tv etc) actually did work, then we wouldn't need to do it more than once. Also there is the idea that the child already knows that he's not supposed to be biting/hitting/etc (assuming they are NT) so just telling them not to do it is pointless. What you need to do is work on the problems before they escalate, when things are calm. And that, if you really think about it, you probably know what the triggers are.

For my son, it's not feeling heard or listened to, not being allowed to decide things or having his decisions undermined, not having his own space - these kinds of things. Hunger and being overtired play into it a bit, but the actual explosive stuff is more deeply rooted.

Anyway, it's worth a read because it did make me see things more clearly. I totally know how you feel though.

Also, I thought my son was the only six year old who behaved like that, but I think people just don't really talk about it.

My son is also very very good at school, his teacher was gobsmacked when I told he how he can be at home.

To add as to the normality of a 6 yr old lashing out. All children have different temperaments as do us adults! So for us who have children who are more feisty than their calmer peers, many 6 yr olds will lash out ( not saying it's acceptable but a fact developmentally that is within normal limits)

I recall having a chat with my ddsreception teacher about my dd getting angry with her friends. Her words were it's normal and common but if she's still doing it by age 7 it becomes more of a concern.

People often hold their kids to a higher standard. There are many adults who cannot manage their anger, let alone a 6 yr old so it really peeves me when people say it's not developmentally normal.

My dd is now 10 and no longer lashes out, gets angry, as we all do, but manages it by giving herself some space to calm down. But I specifically recall 6 years old with my dd been pretty challenging from an emotionally charged point of view so you really are not alone OP.

She just gets upset as she loves her gran. I get upset when I drop her off anywhere, just don't show it. She'll grow out of it eventually. Academically she's quite a head, just emotionally she's a bit lacking, but she is just a child.

When she bites, hits and kicks she's does it half joking, more mischievous / play flighting rather than an unhappy child in rage. Because she doesn't go to bed at reasonable times when she's not at home, she's usually tired and hungry which doesn't help and it's not all the time. When I've been off work for a few days and it's just me and her, it's quite different.

I'll definately read the book and do more research though. I'm done being nice to hear teacher though. They didn't even tell me when she got knocked over and hurt her knee last week. She was hobbling for a couple of days after.

I would caution thinking SEN not lining up with too of class results. The top two children in my son's class also have SEN, specifically what was called high functioning autism. I know people are saying six is still within neurotypical range but it may be worth looking at this to reaffirm your choice of behavior management.

My kids had specific items of high value when they misbehaved they got a warning then lost privilege of having the high value item. To be fair most times there was unacceptable behavior something else was going on.

She's a different child at home. I'm just going to bite my tongue and let them do it their way. It's not worth the agro. Although I will remind her regularly of my expectations and consequence when she's there. It seems to help a little.

"I just want her to calm down so I can explain to her that I won't accept her bad behaviour."

I think this statement indicates why you may be having so many issues with your daughter. Everything sounds pretty punitive and controlling, not about love, choices and respect.

When she 'calms down' you should be talking to her about how she's feeling and how she might better manage her emotions and expectations, and not going on about her bad behaviour thereby possibly re-inforcing her impressions about how negative you feel.

She's a child and she sounds very unsure and insecure in her world...

She may be a child but she knows she shouldn't get violent. It's probably my own fault for being too soft over the years, but it just really annoys me when my parents try telling me what to do even now.

My ex tried the not going on about it and it didn't work. She knew it wasn't going to be mentioned so continued whatever it was. I don't make a big song and dance about it, just subtle reminders which seems to do the trick.

Op i have a bit of personal experience i'm autistic bur i was that kid who was thinking back borderline abusive to my mum because of my dad (my dad was aggressive and i mirrored his behaviours) i was good as gold at school but because i was masking all day i would then be so overwhelmed when i got home that i took it out on her.

Regarding the grandma situation, you said she thought she was going to her grandma's and then found out she was wrong so in her head the routine got messed up and that made her worse. I was also one of the top in my class and didn't get assessed until i was 18. Autism and SEN in general manifests differently in girls we have more pressure on us i reckon.

Just for a bit of hope i calmed down when i had therapy to deal with my dad and because my mum is the best i went no contact with him when i was 12 and my aggression got better and me and her have an amazing relationship now. Maybe she doesn't have SEN but i don't think taking it out of the equation just because she's well behaved at school and is okay academically is going to help

I take on board what you all saying, but my main gripe was the interference by my parents, not necessarily the behaviour.
I was having a bit of an off day and her behaviour just got to me and having my parents telling me what to do pushed me over the limit. I'm a bit more chilled since and a bit more aware of triggers so hopefully won't repeat.