unreasonable demands from sons mum?

[midlandsman]

Hi, im after a little advice. I have a little boy and his mum and i live 4 hours apart. i pay regular maintenance (more than instructed to by the child maintenance folks). I see my son regularly for a week or 2 weeks at a time but things will become more difficult as he's about to start school in September. The agreement we currently have isnt a formal one but we work it out between ourselves.
Out of the blue today his mum came out with 'you HAVE to have him for every school holiday or alternatively pay my childcare bill while I'm working'. now, am i being unreasonable to think the childcare costs while hes with him mum aren't my responsibility? i have to consider my own childcare costs when hes with me and im working (im single) and i also pay a regular monthly maintenance amount which isn't insignificant. also, it goes without saying, i dont get enough holidays from work to be able to have him for every day hes not at school...
Just wanted a third party view on this.....
Many thanks

Legally, as I am sure you are aware, you are liable for the CMS calculated maintenance taking into account the time he is with you. You also need to provide everything he needs during his time with you (which includes relevant childcare etc). That's is. That's the legal requirement.

Beyond that it is about what is reasonable which I think is what you are asking? What is reasonable to me is that that you cover 50% of your child's costs (less that covered by the government). Clearly as you live too far apart you cannot have him for 50% of the time. So it's then a case of working out what the rest of that time is costing her. You could assume that your maintenance (at the CMS rate) covers the extra food, clothes, bedroom etc. which can certainly be argued each way dependant on where in the country the child lives and what you earn - so in turn what your payment is.

That does leave you with things like childcare (on both yours and her time), afterschool clubs like scouts or activities like swimming. Depending on your ex's income the government will pay up to 85% of the childcare costs to enable your ex to work. She should be honest with you about what she can claim and this should be deducted from the 'bill' then you should split the remaining cost between you. 50% sounds fair but will depend on earnings as to whether it is achievable and should also take In to account the running around costs of things like swimming as you cannot clearly do your half.

If you follow my ramblings I am saying 50% of all childcare and clubs etc is a reasonable starting point for discussion which depends on situations.

You could agree to have him for ALL school holidays but bear in mind this includes Xmas and Easter etc. That would be around 25% of his year. (13 weeks). Think also about how things are set up once he starts school. He will want to join clubs and other activities which make spending time 4 hours away difficult. It will be fine probably as a primary schooler but get very much more difficult to impose on a teenager...

You both pay 50% of childcare costs during school holidays, regardless of where the child is.

NOT childcare costs when they are with you. Otherwise one parent could be “unavailable” for the entire holidays knowing the other has to foot childcare bill.

I agree with you OP that splitting the childcare 50/50 seems fair.

So how does she afford nursery during school hours now?
Won't she be paying less when he goes to school? In which case it should go on what happens when he is at school...so full time child minder, school clubs etc. On certain benefits she would recieve child care costs so figure out what she's expecting you to pay for and make sure you aren't then paying more and she's still asking for money for school uniform etc.

Ps...don't let her think you aren't doing enough or paying enough. If you're paying more...she's doing perfectly well seeing as a lot of men don't pay and we have to figure it out. And benefits do NOT take your cm into account so she's not losing anything by you paying it.

Are you thinking in terms of the law or what is fair? The law won’t make you pay childcare but as you don’t have him 50% of the time, why should his mum have to pay the majority of childcare costs? Fair would be 50:50 but it won’t be enforceable.

I guess it depends on how much child support you pay? Also now that he is in school you have to have a more formal regular timetable for seeing him as it all has to be managed carefully with school holidays and your own holiday entitlement. If you cant have him for half the holidays then yes you should be paying at least 50% of the childcare as well. I think what most non resident parents dont understand is how much your ability to work and progress in work is hampered when you are solely responsible for a child/ren.

thank you for all of your responses - they are a huge help. i know what im legally required to pay (the figure is £800 a month if im allowed to say that on here - i pay £900 ). im more concerned with what is fair.
after reading everything, what im hearing in general is that if we split the holidays evenly - he spends 6.5 weeks with both of us - then the associated childcare costs with those 6.5 weeks even themselves out (she pays hers, i pay mine)
what i hadnt taken into account is the term time childcare costs (breakfast clubs, after school clubs etc etc). i think that's the bit i probably ought to be offering to split - maybe increase the maintenance figure further to take into account those costs....

does that sound a reasonable thing to suggest?

Yes, your proposed split is perfectly reasonable.

what i hadnt taken into account is the term time childcare costs (breakfast clubs, after school clubs etc etc). i think that's the bit i probably ought to be offering to split

Yes it is.

It's infuriating though, how so often men have the luxury of just 'not thinking' about expenses like term time childcare or clubs or gear associated with their hobby etc.

In terms of what you pay, it does sound more than reasonable for one D.C.

Have you always lived this far apart? How was it decided she would look after your child most the time? If she moved away knowing it would make it harder for you to help out time wise then she shod have thought about her job and childcare arrangements then.

It's sounds more than reasonable.

It's ten years ago now but I got up to 80% of my childcare fees back through tax credits. She should look into this

to be fair, he hasnt started school yet, so those things havent had to be taken into account up to now.
I also hadnt thought about a good point made by another poster above who stated she will be better off in terms of no longer having to pay for nursery when he starts school, which doesnt mean i wont offer to pay half of the 'term time' childcare, but overall, she will have less outgoings (or at the least they will kind of even themselves out).....

there is a whole back story i havent gone into. his mother is polish and i had a long court battle to fight to get him back in the country when she took him abroad shortly after our relationship ended. when she came back to the uk she moved to where she lives now (4 hours away from me)

that's interesting, thank you....

You can use the tax free childcare scheme for summer childcare so get 20% paid by the government - www.gov.uk/government/news/take-the-stress-out-the-school-holidays-with-tax-free-childcare

thank you very much... i didnt know that.

You're morally responsible for enabling childcare for him 50% of the time, whether that's by looking after him yourself or paying for childcare. His mum is responsible for the other half.

Tell her you'll pay half of all her childcare costs on her time when she pays half of yours on your time... that way you'll see the discrepancy between the two and how to even it up.

She's taking the piss. You shouldn't pay her childcare costs anymore than she should pay yours. Put your foot down.

Perhaps ask her to explain what her current child care costs are versus what they will be when DC is in school (for the whole year including after school and all holidays). Then you can see if her costs are going up or down and how much of your maintenance will go on childcare. My nursery fees for 1DC 4 days a week is about 1400 a month and after school and holiday care four days a week for the other is 700 just for example, but if she gets assistance with childcare with various schemes or can use after school club which is cheaper than other alternatives, the difference may vary wildly. You pay a good amount of maintenance but childcare is expensive so make sure you know what costs are involved before deciding what is fair.

Dear god - why not let the men walk all over us!

this is depressing.

why should the mother be saddled with the majority of the childcare bills?

OP what is the Total cost of childcare per month for your child? It is likely significant. That cost is I too of food, clothes, activities, books and toys.

how much do you pay?

How many weeks a year do you have your child?

why do you live four hours away? Who moved?

lots of questions there -
I pay £900 pcm (the order is for £800)
he stays with me 1-2 weeks per month at the moment (that will reduce when hes at school obviously)
i know clothes etc are expensive - i buy him lots of stuff all the time
im not sure exactly what her childcare costs are.
she decided to live 4 hours away

thank you, good advice

Ignore maintenance. It's a red herring. Maintenance is calculated based on the NRP's income. Try telling those NRPs who receive £5 a week that this is meant to cover 50% of their child's costs and they'll laugh hollowly at you.

It sounds like you pay a decent chunk of maintenance, but the real question is how much are your DC's reasonable costs? Presumably childcare will be cheaper now he is at school, but your ex will still have to pay after-school and holiday club. So ask what options are available to her and how much they cost? A fair starting-point for childcare would be 50/50, I think, not you paying everything. And also she should be getting any help/assistance available to help fund holiday childcare (as should you). It's also worth bearing in mind that she takes a financial hit being the main carer in terms of not being able to work flexibility etc.