3.5 year old sleep destroying life

[Pleasedonttakeapicture]

DD has always been an awful sleeper. She had a few months of sleeping through at around 18 months but after that she’s fairly consistently not slept through.

On very good nights she wakes once (comes through to our bedroom and needs taking back to her bed). On bad nights she wakes every couple of hours and then has a 2-3 hour period where she’s fully awake. In that time she comes through to our bedroom every 10-20 minutes and needs taking back to her bed. And this repeats for approx 2 hours. I can’t quite explain to people around me how awful this is because it feels like I’m just complaining. But I can’t function at work safely, I feel run down and seem to get ill a lot, I can’t keep up on seeing people socially because I just don’t have the energy replying to their messages and seeing them and pretending everything is ok in our life. Myself and DH have the most awful petty arguments just because we’re so tired. We have no time together in the evening, as once life admin is done it’s time for bed to make the most of whatever pathetic sleep we get. We have a younger DS who fortunately sleeps well, but is up for the day at 0530. When DD is in her bad patches we consistently manage 3-4 extremely broken hours of sleep a night.

She won’t sleep in our bed. She lies there for about half an hour and then asks to be taken back to her bed. This repeats through the night. We’ve tried a little bed on our bedroom floor and the same happens. DH has slept in her bedroom for a few weeks but she still is up 2-3 times overnight to use the toilet/have covers tucked back in etc. We’ve tried lights left on, little bed lights, bedroom door ajar/wide open/closed, white noise, weighted blanket, audio books, star charts etc. Nothing helps.

There’s no diagnosis of anything. She’s a very normal and switched on little girl and can surprisingly function quite well on this sleep; with the occasional meltdown when it builds up for her. Has anyone had this? Any advice? Any solidarity? I just feel so alone and lost on when this will end.

My son was exactly like this - but he was diagnosed with autism at 4. He is now 10 and has had melatonin to help him sleep since then and it has made quite a difference. He still has the odd bad night. However, you’ve said your dd has no other issues apart from this? I know it goes against everything everyone always says but could you frisbee in an iPad and let her go on that? That’s what I ended up doing with my son. I gave up with the idea of trying to get him back to sleep and just went with the idea that he didn’t need to sleep and what could I give him to keep him quiet so that we could sleep..!

Have you tried the supernanny method where you basically just keep putting them back in bed silently?

Yes. Mine was like this. At the age of 4 though I started letting her just play in her room when she was awake. We used a gro clock to let her see that she was to be in her room til 7am, but I frankly didn’t have the energy to force her to stay in bed and this ended up saving my sanity. She could get up and read, or play with duplo, or whatever else as long as she didn’t leave her room for anything other than the loo. I kept anything messy like play doh out of her room after learning the hard way!!

For DD it turned out she had sleep apnoea due to enlarged tonsils & adenoids but couldn’t get them removed due to covid cancelling surgeries, so in the end letting her get on with it was the best/only option. She’s since grown out of it age 7 and sleeps from about 8:30 til 6:30

Yup this is what i do with my ASD daughter. I let her watch her tablet when she wakes up at night. I keep it beside her bed after she falls asleep so she doesnt need to come to me at all. She still cones sonetimes but its much better. Parents lives matter😁

My son is similar. He's 9 and he has autism.

Is she in her own room? I'd be inclined to just let her sit up playing or reading. My DS does this now of his own vocation.

Also make sure she's getting enough attention from a parent in the evening before bed. And make evenings as relaxed as possible. (Not easy witn two young ones I know! Been there and done that)

Pop a tall stairgate on her bedroom door (so it's not as shut out as closing the door and hoping she doesn't open it as harsh as that sounds) and let her play in her room or whatever if she wakes? We did this with DS, of course would go in if he was upset or whatever but invariably if he woke in the night he was happy to pop his yoto on or something. I have insomnia so only get an hour to 2 sleep most nights so wasn't even as much for us as it was for him- but it worked well.

This!!

Back to bed consistently.

No advice but solidarity in that I co sleep with my 3.5 year old and breastfeed her through the night and so I’m also asking myself when it will end.

I had a child like this too; putting them back to bed consistently did not work in the slightest. Their sleep gradually improved from about 4 years old, to being able to mostly sleep through the night by about 8. They are still up and about most nights but don't disturb us. I coped by putting my life on hold in many ways and just sleeping whenever I could.

I hate those threads where the OP just whinges and sounds like they’re pushing back on all suggestions but I feel like that’s what I’m about to do!

Tried the super nanny method and she just screams murder when she gets back in her bedroom and follows us back out screaming in the hallway and then our bedroom. She will stand in our doorway crying until we take her back to her bedroom. This then wakes her brother up. We haven’t persisted at this because it’s seemed like such a catastrophic fail.

I’ve given the option of putting her bedroom light on and reading books/audio book/playing but she never does it. It’s as though she does actually want to be asleep but relies entirely on our participation in the shit show every 10-20 minutes.

Melatonin - @Afterfire did your son have difficulty falling asleep at the start of the night? Because DD has no problem with that, it’s just she can’t stay asleep, and I can imagine a GP might laugh at me if I go to them complaining about this without a diagnosis of something.

ASD seems to be a common theme here. Do all your children have quite obvious autism? DD was an early walker/talker and is very sociable with adults and children she knows well. She would always prefer to play with another child than on her own and she has a fantastic imagination. She doesn’t love groups and she is quite sensitive to noises (hand dryers, hoover as a baby etc) but these really are the only things I can think of that might signal ASD. Apart from the textbook ASD sleep patterns.

Tried the super nanny method and she just screams murder when she gets back in her bedroom and follows us back out screaming in the hallway and then our bedroom. She will stand in our doorway crying until we take her back to her bedroom. This then wakes her brother up. We haven’t persisted at this because it’s seemed like such a catastrophic fail

you take her back every single time, you don't let her stand and scream,you take her back again and again untill she gets the message. She's trying it on and knows if she screams you'll give in. First night will be difficult, second possible worse ,third she'll get the message. You have to see it through.

She's 3.5 not 3 months. Time to show her that bedtime is bedtime.

That sounds really hard op! Does she still nap at all? If so could you try cutting that?

My ds is 2.5 so younger but also an awful sleeper. He didn't sleep through at all until 18 months and until 2 we had frequent split nights/multiple wakes. He is similar to your dd in thst being in our bed wasn't the answer, he'd never settle there. He does now sleep through but takes him an hour to go off while I lay with him, he usually sleeps 9pm till 6am. He can't switch off and once he's up that's it. No diagnosis of anything and he's hit milestones well enough, but we do have a follow up when he's 3 to monitor a couple of potential flags. This was advertised by our hv at his 2.5 year review last month.

When his sleep was really awful, we just bunkered down. Very low standards for housework, took turns to catch up on sleep. Easy food, online shop or hello fresh. Can anyone have her for a bit in the day at the weekend so you can rest? You say work is unsafe, is there any chance you could change role or reduce hours while this is going on? Apologies, I'm not offering solutions as it sounds like you've tried everything so I'm going more for things that help you get through.

Mine doesn’t have ASD, or any signs of it. And she hated the idea of staying in her room at first too. We talked about it multiple times in the daytime, explained the importance of me getting enough sleep (she doesn’t have to sleep but I’m going to be a grumpy mummy if I don’t rest and I’ll be too tired to play with her), and roleplayed bedtime with her toys. I also confiscated a teddy for every time she came out of her room. If she had a bad night with multiple incidents of pestering, then next day I would be very boring, not do activities she wanted to do, and when she complained I’d say ‘sorry, but I’m too tired since you didn’t let me sleep last night’. Eventually it sunk in!

Mine was like this but it settled down by the age of 5 or 6 so not too long to go if your wee one is 3.5. 😊

Persevere with taking her back to her bed every time . Of course it won't be easy - if it was you'd have done it already . But it's worth a few difficult nights to break this habit

Thanks everyone for the kind messages. No improvement here but reading those brings me some comfort and I don’t feel so alone.

We’re trying the supernanny approach again. She doesn’t nap but we let her have a 20 minute one today to see if it would reset the overtiredness. She was beside herself today and we’ve all been so angry and shouty. It’s not how I want to be and I feel so awful about it but I equally feel so mentally unwell with it. Like I can’t relax and so much anger. I genuinely don’t think she’s doing it to misbehave. I think for some reason she can’t sleep, but I guess we have to teach her how to cope with that without our involvement. It’s just so depressing when it’s like this.

Time ime to implement consequences the next day. No park /shop /activity /party etc because you are too tired. Yabu to not be tougher.. Ime you will be a better dm and a happier household when everyone gets proper sleep.

My ds has ASD and slept through from a fortnight old.

@Pleasedonttakeapicture DO NOT GIVE IN.

What would giving in look like? I don’t think we are. We’re not sleeping in her room, she’s not allowed in our bed. She didn’t have an ice cream today as a result and couldn’t use her new bike. I just don’t know what else to do to hammer it home. Today has been a miserable and shouty day and I’ve reminded her throughout that these are the direct consequences of everyone being tired.

We had similar with our DS but it came to a head earlier (he was still 2ish).

Are you still in the room with her when she goes to sleep? One of the issues for our son is that he expected us to still be there and so freaked out and came looking. We did the gradual retreat method based on a special sleep cushion where we would sit while he slept. Started off on the chair in his room (as was usual), moved it gradually to the door and then in the doorway, until finally we could put it outside the door and say mummy or daddy will be just here ... That helped a lot.

We also got a Gro Clock so he knew when he was supposed to stay in bed, and we used Supernanny method for any wake-ups.

It wasn't ever perfect till he went to school but we did get more sleep!

Nothing to offer but solidarity

My non-sleeper is nearly 4. He has only just turned a corner in the last fortnight and has slept through several times until 6am. Not consistently, but it's a start.

We didn't do anything magical - I'm really not sure why he's suddenly turned a corner. I'm hoping it will continue to get better but I have a feeling it will be slow progress...

Some of the well-meaning "return them to bed silently", "it will only be a few nights of crying" did make me snort (sorry - no offence intended). It's just, if you know what it's like to have an child of this age who has never been close to sleeping through, then you wouldn't say these things.

Years of sleep deprivation has really taken its toll on me and DH. I feel your pain so much, it is truly awful and no-one gets it unless they've been there.

I've got two older children who were nothing like this, so I know for a fact it's not me doing it wrong. Some children just take longer than others I guess.

Just keep swimming OP. It will get better

My DD like this had retained Morro reflex- read up on neuro development delay. After treatment it was AMAZING saw a practitioner in Windsor that I would recommend.

That said 3 of my DC have neuro diverse diagnoses and by default she probably is too.

"Is it morning yet Mummy"

😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

I don't think my child did it out of naughtyness either, and therefore being 'tough' did not have any effect.

Mine also went to sleep absolutely fine in the evening. They were just awake a lot throughout the night and at that age they obviously couldn't just stay alone quiet for hours at a time.

It must be a physiological or development thing that they grow out of or learn to deal with. My child still doesn't sleep as much as is typical but they are quiet until I get up for breakfast.