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Puggle Lockton 360° Rotate Group 0+1/2/3 Car Seat HELP!!

30 replies

songbird20 · 19/06/2022 12:35

Hello, we have the car seat listed above, the instructions are all over the shop, it’s an isofix and it says online that it comes with the top tether and seat belt option for cars that don’t have an isofix but on the car seats instructions it doesn’t have an option of just the isofix installation.
It has the instructions for isofix and seatbelt, isofix and tether or just seatbelt but it’s making no sense I thought an isofix was for you not to use a seatbelt or a top tether. The isofix base doesn’t come with one of those long stick things at the front to like clamp it to the floor but it’s really secure it doesn’t move with just the isofix.
does anyone else have this car seat? I bought it on online4baby thanks!

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Caspianberg · 19/06/2022 12:50

I don’t have it. But personally I would return it. It’s only suitable rear facing for 0-13kg ( and says 15 months) which is the same as the baby maxi cosi first size seats ( probably one similar to what you already had). I wouldn’t turn 15 month forward facing at all.

We have the Maxi cosi mica as comparison. It’s has the full on leg piece to support the car seat base, and rear faces 0-18kg ( around 4 years).

You also can’t use Isofix over 18kg for safety, only keeping seat in place when empty really, hence they have a seatbelt option.

I can’t see any safety rating scores or reviews on this brand at all

Jenga10097 · 29/06/2022 14:26

I have similar questions after buying this car seat! The instructions are pretty pants! I’ve installed it via the isofix connectors however from the instructions, it also says that you need the anchor point connected (located to the rear of the back seat in boot area) as well as the belt which wraps around it. Problem is, I can’t use the 360 facility when all that’s connected. Surely I’m not supposed to disconnect & reconnect it all just to get it to turn?! Confused.com.

And I’m now past the returns window so pretty much stuck with it now 🙄

ClockSpanner · 29/06/2022 14:30

Agree that if you can return then I would, sorry OP. It is not a well recommended car seat. If you want 360 function then Joie is where you need to look. If that isn't important to you then look at Axkid, Britax and Maxi Cosi. Sorry that it probably isn't what you want to hear!

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

RandomQuest · 29/06/2022 14:46

No experience of this brand or seat but we have a maxi cosi axissfix that installs using isofix with the top tether so I think that’s relatively normal. The plus seatbelt thing is weird though. I’d agree with PP to return it in favour of a well known brand tbh.

DockOTheBay · 29/06/2022 14:50

If it doesn't have instructors for just isofix, I wouldn't use it for just isofix. Even if it feels secure, it sounds like its designed to have the seat belt or top tether in addition - otherwise why would they have them in the instructions?

If you decided to return it and get one which works with just isofix, I highly recommend the Joie 360. Super easy to install and rear-facing to age 4.

Kymbo123 · 27/08/2022 19:10

Love this car seat. Instructions for isofix are there number 7.1.1. In instructions booklet. Forward facing Isofix fixing with single tether over back of car seat (not babyseat) and attached.

Aislingfitzz · 28/09/2022 08:35

I have this car seat and am having the same issue, it’s great but I can’t use the 360 due to the top tether and they won’t let me return it.
has anyone got a picture of theirs set up??

BertieBotts · 13/10/2022 20:14

Unfortunately that is the design of the seat. With isofix, all seats either have the drop down leg or the top tether strap. Top tether is an alternative to the support leg. You shouldn't need tether, isofix and seatbelt all at the same time though. Usually you'll have different options e.g.

  1. Isofix and top tether
  2. Seatbelt only

Check the instructions, but I believe for this seat it's these two only. Although it's not very clear because the isofix + TT instructions run directly into the seatbelt fit instructions, you're not supposed to use all three at once, it's one or the other.

It's common for some of the cheaper spin seats that they use top tether attached to the spinny bit of the seat which means you can't spin it, or they use the seatbelt around the spinny bit which means you can't spin it. And the instructions are not always clear. Unfortunately for the safety of the seat you must use the tether/seatbelt if this is indicated, there aren't any seats on the market that use the isofix completely by itself. So I don't know whether the manufacturers simply intend the spin to be a feature to help when changing the seat orientation, whether it's a marketing thing because spin seats are popular, or whether they don't actually expect people to bother using the tether, they only include it so that it passes the legal crash tests (do not do this - it's likely the seat wouldn't hold if you crashed).

I can't help with a picture unfortunately but I do believe this seat to be identical to the BabyAuto Volta, and there are fitting videos/diagrams/images of this online, e.g. this one:

You will notice that they only spin the seat when it's uninstalled and when they show placing the child in they do not spin the seat.

If you can get a refund and wanted a cheaper brand spin seat that works as advertised I would recommend Graco Turn2Me, I wouldn't go any cheaper. If you need to spend less then look at more basic seats, rather than spin type seats.

Clohaines · 20/10/2022 12:49

Hi, are you still having issues with this?
I have same seat and instructions that do show just the seatbelt option.

I am using Isofix & top tether, it does rotate whilst top tether connected up but has taken me a few months to realise that!!! Just once you’ve rotated double check top tether is tight and indicator still green.

hope this helps! :)

Nyreewood · 08/11/2022 12:47

I have this car seat and I personally contacted the company to ask if it could rear face until age 4 or the weight equivalent as there was no point in me purchasing this if not. They got back to me and said yes it can. Please anyone unless you have contacted the company themselves to ask, don't say what it can and can't do. I also have the message as proof if you'd like to see it.

I need to work out how to fix it via seatbelt only and agree the instructions are not very clear at all!

Hugasauras · 08/11/2022 16:16

It literally says on the label on the seat it's only to be fitted up to 13kg rearward facing, so either they are mass producing incorrect labels and all their marketing info is also wrong or someone is giving duff into.

Shite seats anyway, if you want a decent spin seat that does go to 18kg RF then get a Joie or a Britax Dualfix.

Hugasauras · 08/11/2022 16:30

*duff info

Nyreewood · 09/11/2022 10:38

The company wouldn't be allowed to give you information that was incorrect due to health and safety and it going back on them.

Hugasauras · 09/11/2022 11:44

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Hugasauras · 09/11/2022 11:49

Are you sure you have the same seat? This is the Puggle Lockton 360, not the Puggle iSize Safe Max 360, which does RF to 18kg.

DreamyDesigns · 15/04/2023 21:51

I have looked at buying this car seat as wanted matching pink for my granddaughters. If you watch the video it shows you can use the isofix with the tether which still allows you to use the 360 spin. Hope this helps. I more worried about crash reviews now

SunnySaturdayMorning · 15/04/2023 21:55

DreamyDesigns · 15/04/2023 21:51

I have looked at buying this car seat as wanted matching pink for my granddaughters. If you watch the video it shows you can use the isofix with the tether which still allows you to use the 360 spin. Hope this helps. I more worried about crash reviews now

You should be. This is an incredibly unsafe seat.

It’s only had minimal testing, it only RF to 13kg, and it’s an all stages seat (all stages seats do not perform well in crash tests).

If you want your granddaughters to be as safe as possible they should be in an 25kg ERF Swedish plus tested seat as this will allow them to RF until 6/7 years old.

I’ve attached an image of these seats for you.

DreamyDesigns · 15/04/2023 23:04

Thanks. I have a limited budget and need 2 . Which recommendation from birth 360 too

Lupita123 · 16/04/2023 05:48

This is a very sweeping statement about all stages seats. Do you work in this industry or have experience of this? From what I've seen there are very reputable brands (including joie and silver cross) with all stages seats and they have been through rigorous testing as required to conform to the regulations indicated on the safety stickers

BertieBotts · 16/04/2023 07:44

Yes it's a bit extreme/scaremongering!

When you look at ADAC crash test results (the supplier of the EU consumer magazines e.g. Which) you do see that in general the all stages or multi stage seats (covering rear facing, forward facing and booster stage) represent a compromise in safety compared with seats that cover 1-2 stages. That's true even from brands like Joie and Nuna, who otherwise have high performing seats.

The scoring goes from 0.5 - 5.5 (if you like you can "translate" it to school grades, A+ all the way down to E/F) - All Stages seats in general typically get safety scores in the region of 3.5 - 4.5 which is about a D.

Spin type seats from 0-4 years (ie, without the booster seat mode), omitting purely rear facing versions, tend to score more in the region of 2-3 for safety (roughly equivalent to a B- to C+ grade)

High backed booster seats from 4-12 years, omitting those with a backless option, typically score in the region of 2-2.5 so approx a B to B-.

The Silver Cross all stage was unusual in that it scored 2.5 for safety (B/C), which puts it more in the region of an average performing spin seat + lower end (but OK) booster than an all stages seat. No other all stages seat has ever done this well. If you absolutely must have a spinning all-stages seat, the Silver Cross Motion All Size is the best one to have from a safety perspective, but it is very expensive.

Caregivers are often attracted to the models which are sold online or sometimes in cheaper baby stores like Smyths and Halfords, which boast a list of features as long as your arm:

Spin
From birth
"Extended" rear facing (beware, sometimes used even for 13kg RF limit)
Side impact protection (again, not a protected term)
Isofix
Seatbelt fit
All stages/up to age 12
Having an "i-" somewhere in the name making you assume it's i-Size
Recline
Universal (just means it can be seatbelt fitted)
Appealing name/cover design
£100 - £150 price tag

Unfortunately, it's just not possible to do all of those things well at that price. You're definitely getting a compromise somewhere. These seats tend to be mass produced in countries where the labour is cheap and imported over.

While I think it's a huge exaggeration to say these seats are "incredibly unsafe", they are often flimsy, poor quality compared to premium brands, confusing/hard to follow/badly translated/minimal instructions (a problem because incorrect installation or use is one of the main factors implicated in child car accident deaths) They typically get lower scores in the independent crash testing than seats from brands such as Joie, Nuna, Britax. (Silver Cross use a generic manufacturer for their seats, but seemingly a higher quality one, most of their seats have done well in their class). They often do not fit children well at the edges of an age/weight category, which means newborns often have too much space around them and parents are likely to move children to the next stage (e.g. rear facing to forward facing, harness to seatbelt) at a younger age because for example the harness does not fit well, and they very rarely truly accommodate children up to the height of an average 12 year old because the booster mode doesn't usually extend up very high at all. Sometimes there are ease-of-use annoyances like the seat being heavy, taking up a lot of space, or the fitting not allowing the spin to be used.

But - assuming you haven't accidentally bought a fake - they do conform to the legal standard, and if used properly they should protect children from the majority of accidents. Children are better protected in a higher rated seat, but these cheaper seats (provided they are used properly, and conform to the required standard) are not unsafe.

For a grandparent seeking 2x 360 seats from birth I'd recommend the Graco Turn2me i-size or Joie Spin 360. It doesn't come in pink unfortunately, but it does have a very high safety rating, isofix, spin function and a low price tag. They can be used up to approx 4 years old. If the older child is already using a booster seat, the Joie Trillo LX is a good option on a budget and likely comes in a matching colour. Or Britax Evolva is a good option for a child who is over 2.5 years, forward facing and will need to come out of the 5 point harness in the next year or so. There used to be a pink version of this, possibly some retailers still have old stock.

Lucyk51 · 28/01/2024 23:53

Hiya, how did you get this car seat to spin whilst the tether is in place. I feel like I've tried everything and I can't seem to find a way to spin it. Thank you!

BertieBotts · 29/01/2024 00:56

Hi @Lucyk51 unfortunately you can't spin the seat with the top tether fitted. You either have to loosen the tether to spin the seat, and then tighten it again before driving or you have to use the seat without the spin function. It's a very misleading design.

Lucyk51 · 29/01/2024 04:26

Thanks for your reply BertieBotts. This is really annoying! It's so impractical to go and undo the tether in the boot every time you get in and out! And I'm assuming it's completely unsafe to use without the top tether when it's rear facing?

BertieBotts · 29/01/2024 12:18

Yes, absolutely, unfortunately so. You must use the tether if you're using the isofix, that's for both rear facing and forward facing. The only stage where tether is optional is the high backed booster mode.

You can fit this seat with seatbelt instead of isofix and tether, but it has exactly the same problem.

This is an example of a similar kind of seat (I don't know the brand) in an accident when the tether was not fastened: https://www.facebook.com/goodeggsafety/posts/588649396634077

Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/goodeggsafety/posts/588649396634077

Rector · 02/09/2024 16:23

Hi. Please can someone tell me how to remove the cover for washing?