Really struggling with breastfeeding after frenotomy

[stnly]

Hi everyone - I wonder if anyone has any advice as me and my little girl are both struggling.

I'm a FTM and had my little girl 17 days ago. From the offset feeding has been a horrible experience as she had a tongue tie and the pain was excruciating with bleeding, cracked and blistered nipples within 24 hours.

We tried nipple shields which where rubbish, so resorted to pumping and topping up with formula (still offering breast too a few times a day when they where healed enough to bare her latch).

Yesterday we had her tongue tie snipped and I've gone back to offering back to back breast feeds, but it's still excruciatingly painful. I'm after feeding on both sides last night the pain was unreal for any feeds afterwards which led to both of us crying our eyes out and me shouting out in pain as she was feeding - which isn't great for either of us. I gave up and gave some more formula to her last night and a bottle in the early hours this morning (she's only waking once a night for a feed currently) and have tried breast feeding again today to the same result. Currently sat on the sofa crying my eyes out wondering if it's all worth it.

When she opens her mouth wide I manage to get her on the boob in what I think is a deep latch, but she detaches herself and relatches on just the nipple. I've tried all sorts of positions with no luck. I have GG cup boobs so can't really see what's going on too well. I've had advice from the midwives in hospital, the community midwives and the midwives who performed the frenulotomy on latching but we can't seem to make anything work. Even with their help the latch has always been unbareable.

She's gained weight well (gone from 6lb 4 to 7lb by day 10) on the combi feeding, but I'm finding pumping a pain to manage and so was only doing it with the hopes of keeping up my supply to breastfeed.

Is it going to always be this painful? I know breastfeeding can be painful whilst it's being established but surely it shouldnt be so bad that I'm in tears shouting out in pain and can't bare to have her attached.

It's really affecting my bond with her as i dread feeding, but feel like giving up breastfeeding is letting her down

Don’t underestimate the power of those hormones in the first few weeks! Your rational brain gets turned off it feels!

No advice as such, just solidarity.

Things that worked for me were: Weleda nipple cream, fresh air on my nipples, super soft nursing bras from HandM and Medela hydrogel nipple pads...most of all that helped was time.

DD had a poor latch as I had flat nipples. They are no longer flat but the process of her making them not flat was actual torture. My toes would curl and I'd cry and say that it was the last feed and I'd mean it. Worse than labour. No one prepares you for how frigging painful it is.

After about 4 weeks it got better and easier, nipples did take ages to heal as they got no chance to! She fed 15-20 times a day for the first 8 weeks! It was madness.

I still bf at 21 months though and from about 4 months onward it was super easy! (It was pain free from 4 weeks though)

Oh my goodness why are you continuing to torture yourself. Your baby just needs feeding. It really doesn’t matter in what form that takes. Please be kind to yourself. You have nothing to feel guilty about. Don’t put any more pressure on yourself and don’t be bullied into continuing to do something which is clearly causing you a huge amount of stress and pain. 💐

Whatever you do don't feel guilty or bad. When it's bad breastfeeding is horrible. I think some people just get unlucky and suffer more regardless of latch etc.
I found silver breast cups/shields helpful (google on Amazon). Seemed to help heal the damage quicker. However if it's too much just do what you can manage and use formula. I persevered with no1 but in hindsight I'm not sure it was worth it as it took a toll on my mental health. (It wasn't properly comfortable until around 10 weeks despite multiple breastfeeding consultations). For my other babies it hurt initially but for less than 2 weeks and then it was fine.

Poor you. My first had tongue tie but it was snipped much earlier (day 5) so I don’t know if the following will apply to you.

Latching remained painful even after it was snipped which surprised the lactation consultant until she worked out the breast was too full of milk for him to be able to get enough breast in his mouth. I had to express a little milk to soften them before feeding (but not too much so as not to stimulate more supply) and he was then able to latch ok. Once he got bigger this was no longer necessary. Best of luck whatever you decide.

DC3 had tongue tie, I was bleeding, she was vomiting milk with blood in which was awful to see. I carried on and it did get better, bf for 18 months. I think I only got through it because it was winter and most of the time was naturally spent comfy in the house. When I had DC4 (3 weeks old now) I said I wouldn't go through what I did with DC3, thankfully it has been completely pain free.

I do love breastfeeding but it's honestly not worth ruining your mental health for. If you do end up FF ignore anyone who judges you, they've no right to.

I agree with previous PP who say that the benefits of BF are massively overstated in a developed country with clean water and good formula. I hated bf and was delighted to give it up. My kids are teens now and no one gives a shit how they were fed!

I have 4 children and breastfed for a total of 5 years and always found the first couple of weeks painful. Don't know if that happens to everyone but I always had to brace myself getting them latched on and then it would suddenly ease. In those early days I did one boob for each feed so the nipple had longer to recover.

Never had tongue tie problem though so don't know about that. Could her mouth still be sore after having the tongue tie cut so making it hard for her, maybe it will be better in a day or two.

Good luck and the milk you've already given her will have benefits even if you can't continue. Don't worry what others think, when I had my first, 1970s, I was pushed to formula feed, lots of pressure in hospital as Sister liked to know how much milk "her" babies had, then no support at home. I think I carried on out of bloodymindedness so it had the opposite effect on me. Sometimes being a rebel can be empowering.

Darling, i think the most important bit is done. Shes had colostrum, youve done so well to even get this far with having tongue tie. Its absolutely not supposed to be that painful. Not really supposed to be painful at all.

If it was me I would be looking at moving on to majority formula. Maybe keep one breastfeed a day for another couple of weeks if it makes you feel better, which will still give your poor nips a break, but tbh, youve nothing to feel bad about.
Bottle feeding can be just as close

I didn’t have to deal with a tongue tie but DD’s weight dropped too much and we had to top up with formula. She was also taking a full 4 ounces every feed and it was disheartening. She has reflux too and so any breast milk I tried to give her would just come straight back up. I remember one particular evening when I’d spent 20 minutes trying to get her to latch, getting DH to take her from me and calm her, then try again, giving her a bit of formula to calm her and she finally breastfed for about 5 minutes before everything came back up. I was distraught. I didn’t see the point in battling with her for her to throw it up. And it did feel like a battle. I wasn’t sure if I was battling DD or DH who kept insisting that she did actually like me.

I thought I would receive judgement from others. About a week and a half after stopping I went to my first baby class, there were 3 other mums who were all serenely breastfeeding. One baby was younger than DD had been when I stopped and her latch was great and she was so content. I felt ashamed to bring out my bottle and formula, even though I’d been using those whilst breastfeeding anyway because she needed them. I didn’t feel ashamed to bring the formula out when that was just a top up but somehow changing to fully formula I was. I also felt really sad because the other mum and younger baby already had it established. This was her second baby and I don’t know what she went through with her first or even this baby to understand how hard it was to get it established. The thing is, none of the other mums bothered what I was doing. I would say the more classes I went to the more I noticed mums feeding formula. In the real world, most people don’t care. I’d say people on here are the worst for it, you’ll see a lot of posters saying lactation consultants are a waste of money, it’s natural, it’s free and convenient. If you’re feeling fragile for a while then I’d just recommend avoiding those threads in here for a while but I’ve not encountered any judgement in the real world. Hormones do funny things.

It’s taken a while to recognise that breastfeeding was going to give me PND. My supply dropped almost as soon as it came in because we got readmitted to hospital. In hindsight the stress was never going to allow me to build up my supply. Combine that with how much I was neglecting myself (not sleeping, not eating and not drinking) because I was trying to feed and pump pretty much all day, it’s no wonder my body couldn’t produce enough breastmilk. My DD is 6 months now and they are so small for such a small time. Just enjoy your baby. Enjoy cuddling a content, full (however they are fed) baby that sleeps on your chest rather than both of you crying at every feed. You might feel bad about stopping but it’ll pass, I feel less sad as more time goes past and I realise how much I was asking of myself.

The thing with tongue tie is they aren’t good at getting the milk out and it is exhausting for them. You are told to offer both breasts because one alone will not fill them up, but they get so tired from feeding that they fall asleep on the breast and you have to wake them up so they have a shot at getting enough, and stimulating you correctly so your milk levels raise. This in itself is painful when they slip but you can’t rest your nipples either as you are already under supplying. One feeding session when my daughter was 17 days would take 45 mins -1 hour at least as I was told to give 3 or 4 breasts(!), then I would have to top up, then I’d have to pump. I didn’t sleep.

she is my only child and I often do wonder what it’s like to have a baby that is efficient at removing milk from the breast. I don’t think anything I do will ever be as hard as triple feeding.

Don't feel guilty. It astounds me how women are expected to just know how to breastfeed! It's a learned skill with a lot of variables...... and little support. It's a bit like learning to drive, with no instructor, no idea what to do, and relying on a tiny baby to operate the pedals 😂 oh - and whilst recovering from pregnancy/birth and suffering from sleep deprivation! No wonder people give up - it's really hard and painful to start with. Tongue tie makes it even worse!

If you do decide to continue I would recommend seeing a breastfeeding counsellor. Your health visitor should be able to set this up. I was able to see one at a clinic for free and she totally saved my bacon. What I had to do was this: feed rugby ball style, propped up on 2 pillows, for the first six weeks (this allowed healing on the sore parts of my boobs). Smother nipples regularly with Vaseline/lansinoh to allow moist wound healing. My baby was only partially tongue tied and after six weeks she had grown enough to cope with it/size of my ridiculous boobs. I then fed her normal cradle style, but had to prop my boobs up with a muslin to improve nipple angle 😂 I wouldn't have thought of any of these tiny practical adjustments without the help of an impartial observer!

After 2 months I'd say the whole experience becomes more joyous. Then they get teeth!!!

I’m still breast feeding at 7 months and my left boob still hurts! I would have quit by now but he won’t take a bottle anymore. I’ve ff one baby and bf one baby and if I have another I’ll probably ff again. Breastfeeding is hard work!

I breastfed my first for ten days. It was awful. I’d had sepsis and an emcs and we were in hospital for a week. I hated every feed, it was relentless and my nipples were bleeding and sore. I gave up on day ten because I was so miserable, in pain and not at all enjoying my baby. I was scared my baby would notice how tense and unhappy I was every time I held him to feed. I felt so so guilty that he would get all the things breastfeeding is meant to help prevent- like constipation etc. however I just couldn’t do it anymore and had to stop. Best thing I ever did. I actually was able to enjoy my baby and I’m so glad I didn’t hang on for weeks and weeks and instead got to enjoy that very early stage instead of being miserable and in agony.

with my second, I was having an elcs and knew I would breastfeed for just the colostrum so the first 3 days and then see how I felt with absolutely no pressure. I moved to ff after 4 days. It was great because I knew this time around that I didn’t need to feel guilty because my oldest had been fine being ff.

both kids are older primary age now and totally fine. It made no difference in the end so I had no reason at all to feel guilty. Babies don’t care if it’s ff or bf so if you need to stop then stop and don’t feel guilty at all. It’s better for your baby that their mum is happy and relaxed

I gave up after 6 weeks of pure agony. BF got more and more painful and I got zero support or help from HV or the BF group. No one looked in DD’s mouth but turns out she was quite severely tongue tied.
The day I went and bought formula I was so sad. The next day I was so, so much happier. I never found FF inconvenient, quite the opposite. FF undoubtedly made me a better, happier mum. DD is 9 now and honestly - looking back I wonder what on earth I was trying to prove by putting us both through those hellish first weeks.

I've been browsing these forums for years but I don't think I've ever posted before. Your story is similar to mine-- I got my boys tongue tie cut at 6 days as feeding was excruciating and everyone told me it would fix it.

I went to a private doctor and paid a lot of money (Im in Ireland), and also paid a lactation consultant. Neither of them warned me of any risks with the procedure, just that it would definitely fix the feeding. It didnt. He was never able to latch on again after it, he couldnt even take a bottle for a few days, we had to syringe fluid into him.

It was really horrible, I had tried so hard, didnt want to give him formula, missed feeding him myself and felt let down by the health professionals who were supposed to help me.

I was so upset and so stressed by it all, I understand totally how you feel. I tried pumping for a while, it made me miserable. My lovely health visitor told me that in 6 months time I would be stressing about food instead, and that the most important thing was to enjoy him-- I finally realised it was ok to give myself a break and let go of the breast feeding it wasnt working.

That baby is now an extremely healthy 2.5 year old. If I could go back in time, I would give that version of me a big hug and say to let it go and just enjoy the little baby. A relaxed and happy mama is way more important than how the baby is fed. But I do understand how it feels, and the huge guilt and sadness that comes with stopping. So a big hug for you, and I hope everything works well out for you, in whatever way that happens❤congratulations on your baby.

I gave up. I couldn't deal with the pain which was worse than child birth in that it is constant and increasingly painful. After 3 weeks the pain was driving me insane. And I stopped.

DC2 was marginally better as latched and sucked better. I bf morning and evening for longer.

Stop if you want. Really. Don't let people judge you. It's good for dad etc to get a look in too.

That is awful. Having a tongue tie cut always seems to be presented as the perfect solution but it doesn't seem that straightforward.

OP, you’ve had lots of supportive messages reassuring you that it’s ok to quit. If that’s what you want to do, that’s absolutely your choice.

I am on the other side of the coin, where I would counsel against making any decisions within 3-5 days of a frenulotomy. Baby has suddenly gained tongue function! They need to learn how to bring their tongue forward and to cup the breast with it rather than ‘slipping’ and sitting on the nipple (sounds like that’s what is happening to you, hence the minced nips scenario).

Are you doing the post-tie release exercises? Sucking on finger then removing finger, running finger along bottom gum line? The best advice I could give is to relatch baby every time she slips. She needs to learn to ‘hold on’ to that big mouthful of breast. Also check out the flipple technique, it is a lifesaver for big breasted women with TT babies: themilkmeg.com/get-better-latch-exaggerated-latch-flipple-breastfeeding-technique/

My second baby is also 17 days old today, had a very anterior (100%) TT released on day 5, just like my first baby. Feeding was awful for the first 24-48h after the snip but this time I just insisted on adjusting the latch rather than gritting my teeth and getting shredded (which is what I did with my first).

If you want to persevere, it can be done. There are many of us TT survivors now feeding toddlers. Expert help from a hospital Infant Feeding Team or private lactation consultant could be really valuable for you if you did want to carry on. Wishing you all the best.

Hi Op,

No, my ds didn't learn to latch after it being snipped. But the 15 year old that was snuggling up to me last night sharing a bowl of rainbow drops hasn't had any harm or lack of bond because if this!

Be aware a lot of hospitals and health visitors are bound by breastfeeding policy which means they are obliged to promote breastfeeding at all costs, and can be disciplined if they don't do tjis. This means unless you get someone that is experienced at dealing with babies that won't feed and willing to speak up and say "This won't work, it's OK to get a bottlr" you can end up being pushed along a path that isn't working for you x

I was in a similar position a few months back. Agony that you can't really describe. My only advice is get silver nipple shields, and do whatever works for yo, if that is combination, bottle only..... You are doing amazingly and your very best for your baby. Breast feeding did work out for me in the end probably about 3 to 4 weeks after having her tongue tie cut. Not sure if it was the cut, her getting bigger and better at latching, my nipples getting tougher or the shields, or probably a bit of everything.

Don't be hard on yourself , there is a reason there are so many lactation consultants and helplines- it is because it can be really really difficult.