5yo still not toilet trained - please help me keep my sanity

[Rosieglow]

My 5yo ds is still not toilet trained. We started when he was about 3.5 & its all been pretty hopeless. He started school this academic year & in the summer before he started he was still having accidents most days. He was ok-ish with wees but if he needed a poo then it would accidents all day - 7/8 pairs of pants.

He gradually got better during the term so that by the end he hadn't had a big accident for several weeks (still comes home smelling of wee though).

Now he's completely regressed over Xmas and is back to accidents all day. Had 5 pairs pooey pants & 2 wet today.

School are losing their patience as they had to change a another big poo last week. They've said I'm going to have to see the Head about it.

What can I do? We've tried everything - rewards, ingnoring it, making him clean himself up. Mostly I think he just can't control it - he say's he can't stop the poo coming out.

Please, please does anyone have any advice on this? HV, GP just say he'll grow out of it but when?!!

Don't know much about this, but would say time to speak to someone more experienced than HV or GP. Possibly school nurse or even get a paediatrician referral to unpick what's behind it. From my own memory - the odd accident is normal, but not on such a regular basis.

His diet is really good - he eats lots fruit & veg so his poo is quite soft. Definately not contispated. But not runny like you wouldn't be able to hold it in. It's more like he waits until he really, really has to go. But then he thinks he's not going to be able to stop it & just stands (or hides) where he is until it's too late.

TotalChaos - the school aren't any help, I've already asked if they can advise or know of any other parents etc but they've said they don't know.

I saw the HV last year but they said he'd just grow out of it. I'm on the verge of going back to the GP to ask for a referal but I'm afraid that making a big deal about it is going to stress DS out(he gets upset when we tak about it). I suggested going to the GP to DS today & he got really defensive saying "there's nothing wrong with my body".

If it's something he will just grow out of then I'll leave it be. But although everyone keeps telling me that, I can't find anyone that it actually happened to.

Then I worry perhaps I'd be missing some medical condition that needs sorting....

you might find this site useful:-

www.eric.org.uk/

Thanks, I'll have a look at that.

HAve same prob with my 4 and a half DS. He says doesn't want to go to loo as it is boring and he might miss something interesting - ie playing with friends/TV etc. He holds and holds it for two or three days (even up to five days - with a lot of stained pants). I got referred by GP to hosp. But only confirmed what I knew already - healthy diet, healthy body, very much "behavioural" issue. Am v. depressed about it, and have a total mother guilt thing happening. have tried ignoring, have tried treats, have shouted when at a low ebb. YOU ARE NOT ALONE.

Rosie, Becca, can I say I know exactly where you are coming from, my ds is 6 on Monday and is still not 100% there, however he is a lot better than he was, he is slowly growing out of it. Whats more his cousin and one of his uncles were just as bad, so it can happen.

Becca, if he finds the toilet boring, can you put something interesting in there for him to do, but which must stay in the toilet, a book, cheap handheld computer game, something he can sit on the toilet and do, but which he is only allowed to do when sat on/stood at the toilet?

There is a Bear in the Big Blue House book called "When You've Got to Go", which deals with various toilet problems, including going when you are in the middle of something. Published by Simon and Schuster, london, ISBN 0743429109. A nice story involving well known characters.

Another thing we have done is explained where wees and poos come from and why we have to do them. I happened across a great Usbourne book for kids which explains in detail (probably more than you or I would want, but the kids sem to love it) what happens using a diagram of the body with flaps to lift so you can see inside the body. I cannot find it at the moment (my ds loves it and has obviously had it somewhere) but will post the details when I do.

As for rewards, we have a sweetie tube (actually a CLEAN urine sample bottle, but anything of a similar size should work), everytime he does a wee on the toilet he gets to put one sweet in, a poo gets two sweets, both gets 3, but he has to remove 1 (wee), 2 (poo) or 3 (both) if he doesnt go to the toilet and does it in his pants/on the floor (or whatever can take his fancy - he will wet anywhere to get a reaction sometimes ). When the tube is full he gets to eat the sweets. I use dolly mixtures, and he gets about 10 sweets in the tube.

One piece of advice I got from the school nurse was to actually stop making it such a big issue and just treat it as any other behaviour you expect but dont always get, eating all his tea, putting his clothes in the wash etc. Dont go mad, just give a similar level reaction - then it doesn't give them the feedback they want (as long as it is behavioural). Oh and she also said it is more common than you think, it is just something ppl wont admit to!

Hope these may help, feel free to cat me if you need to let off steam, or just to chat

Leanne