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Baby sleep - where are we going wrong?

31 replies

Cloudy678 · 25/05/2022 11:53

Getting my baby to sleep - naps and bedtime sleep - is so draining and I’d like to know if this is normal or if anyone has advice for us.

baby is 5 months old and since 3 months - based on advice in the books I’ve read - I’ve been working to get a good routine down and get her to have most naps in her cot. The goal I’m working towards is to put her down in the cot and leave the room while she settles herself off to sleep.

however, she’s consistently upset at the idea of going to sleep. I’ve tried adjusting wake windows, giving her lots of fresh air, etc, but It doesn’t matter if she’s put down after 1.5 or 2.5 hours, as soon as we come into the dark room or I put her in her sleep sack she gets upset. We currently have around 20-30 mins of her crying in cot (not always crying, sometimes just lots of frustrated noises/screams and thrashing around but it will build to crying as time goes on).

when she starts properly crying, I rock the cot / shush her / sing, but I don’t think any of these make much of a difference. I try to stay out of eyesight as if she sees me she wakes up more and is twisting round in cot trying to engage with me. Eventually she will sleep for 30 mins to 2 hours (usually 30-40 mins) but I get upset that she’s so upset and worry that I’m doing something obviously wrong. It feels like what we’ve ended up doing isn’t that much different emotionally to cry it out…

The room is dark, she has a comfort toy (which she pulls at and screams into) and I play white noise/ music. Is this normal in terms of a baby settling for sleep? I know some people just put their babies down and they go off happily and quickly - will we ever get to that point?

sorry for long post and thank you for any input in advance 💗

OP posts:
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Honaloulou · 25/05/2022 11:56

I'd just rock her/ cuddled her / whatever. 30 mins of upset at every nap time sounds tough for both of you.

It might make a tricky habit, but you've got a tricky situation at the moment so i personally wouldn't worry too much about that.

GromblesofGrimbledon · 25/05/2022 11:56

5 months is so young. Some go down easily and some don't. Mine is 8 months and I can't put him down the way you describe. I feed him to sleep. He needs the comfort and struggles to drift off without help.

What happens if you feed her or rock her to sleep?

Stevienickssnickers · 25/05/2022 12:04

I think your expectations are too high. Is all that upset worth it for 30 minutes sleep? I'd argue no. Stick her in the buggy for a walk or cuddle/rock/feed her to sleep. It doesn't last forever and "habits" can be changed.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Cloudy678 · 25/05/2022 12:05

Thanks for reply. I imagine all babies are so different aren’t they - and yet the ‘official’ advice feels very cookie cutter. If I feed her or rock her to sleep she doesn’t stay asleep for very long. If I get get her to do most of the hard work, she does sleep much better. But it feels a bit too hard on her at present

OP posts:
Madmaxxy · 25/05/2022 13:23

Honestly OP ignore what the books say you 'should' be doing and do what works for you and your baby. This is anecdotal but I know some parents that tried to force a routine and some that 'go with the flow' (I'm in the go with the flow group) and the ones trying to implement routine are always the ones complaining about struggles with their baby. If the book says what they should do and then they don't, then it will always feel like a battle!

shivawn · 25/05/2022 13:59

I know some people just put their babies down and they go off happily and quickly - will we ever get to that point?

My baby does this but only since nap training with controlled crying. Naps used to be such an ordeal and he would only sleep on me or on buggy walks up until that point. Now he rolls on his side and falls asleep in his cot within 2 minutes of me leaving the room with zero crying, total game changer.

TheGlitterati · 25/05/2022 14:06

My eldest was like this. It took me a while to realise it was how they settled themselves. Trying to intervene didn’t help.

Bluedabadeeba · 25/05/2022 16:30

It really shouldn't be this hard. I read all about all that between 3-/4 months... then found my self rocking the baby in a dark room, I was crying, he was crying. My husband came in and asked 'What's going on?" I was explaining all the shoulds and oughts.... then realised how ridiculous it all sounded.

I'm a 'go with the flo' kind of parent in all other aspects, but all those sleep books etc make you feel like you're going to ruin your kid for life if you don't do it a certain way and get stuck in your head.

'Self soothing' is such an alusive (made up?!) state (I think, peddled by the baby sleep industry). I hardly know ANY babies that go down that way. Mine is 1 and won't either... I'm one of those TERRIBLE mothers who feeds their baby to sleep each time audible gasp.

Anyway, maybe try to reset it all. Back to basics. What puts the baby to sleep easily and quickly? What makes her cosy and ready to sleep? Just do what feels right. Screw the methods.!

Because to be honest (and meant with kindness), if I knew I was going into (what esssntially is a cage) in a room and only picked up/rocked after 30m of crying (if that's what i really needed), it might set me off too.

She won't still be doing it at 13, that's for sure.

Lowkeyloopy · 25/05/2022 22:17

I can totally relate to this, OP. I’m FTM to a 3 month old and the sleep books / internet have got into my head too! My little boy sleeps well at night but doesn’t nap easily so I’ve been doing lots of reading. And all the “rules” around sleep have made me quite stressed, so I’m starting to be a bit more selective about what I choose to do, and trying to take a bit of pressure off myself, my husband and my little boy.

Self soothing seems like nonsense as far as I can tell - at least this early on. A rigid routine also seems non-sensical (and boring - you ar meant to be enjoying your baby).

Sometimes a baby will be ready for sleep after 1 hour if that hour has been super stimulating and active. Sometimes they’ll be happy for 3-4 hours even. I think the key is following their cues and ignoring the clock - looking out for eye rubbing, going quiet and staring into space. I’ve learned that the yawn is the very final cue and usually only happens once I start winding him down with his “sleep associations” (see below..!) so if I only start nap time when I see a yawn, I might already be too late.

At this stage I think you can only be doing “sleep associations” rather than attempting self-soothing. For us that’s a dimly lit room, white noise (womb noises on Spotify), sleeping bag, twinkle twinkle and bouncing/swaying. He will often grizzle and wriggle in our arms for a few minutes but it doesn’t turn into cries of distress, then he falls quiet and then a few minutes later he drops off and we place him down. If your little one is full on crying, she’ll just have adrenaline and cortisol pumping through her; making sleep even more tricky.

You’re probably thinking “but I’m meant to put her down awake but drowsy!”. I also thought this but I just don’t think it’s doable yet. I also haven’t met anyone whose baby drops off on their own in their cot. So I really hate all this “awake but drowsy” crap all over the internet, making mums feel guilty.

I read a helpful article earlier which said to follow the hierarchy of sleep - 1. Baby sleeps WHEN they should, 2. Baby sleeps WHERE they should and 3. Baby falls asleep on their own. The priority at this stage should be just getting them to sleep using whatever sleep associations are needed, although obviously the less drastic the better (ie gentle swaying that you can reduce over time, not driving them around in a car!). Just get them used to falling asleep first, then do sleep training down the line. If a baby is overtired because they haven’t been able to fall asleep while their parents are trying to get them to self-soothe, they’ll become even more difficult to get to sleep and you get into a vicious cycle.

I also worried about the whole “mustn’t engage / make eye contact” thing, but this is another thing I’ve decided is rubbish! Obvs you don’t want to be grinning away to them, but I find my baby looks searchingly at me for resssurance and comfort. It seems so wrong to pick one of the moments he finds scariest (lying down in a dark room on his own) to become aloof mummy who doesn’t smile and won’t look him in the aisle. In fact, this evening, he kept looking up at me during his feed to smile and I smiled back, thinking “this is a mistake, he’ll never settle now”, but he settled more quickly than he had in ages, about 10 mins after the feed.

I hope some of that is helpful. Sorry for the ramble. As I say, you have my sympathy as sleep is such a massively important thing and way too much has been written about it and the vast majority of it just seems totally unrealistic!

Lowkeyloopy · 25/05/2022 22:27

*in the eye, not the aisle!

ChuckMater · 25/05/2022 22:33

Why not just cuddle her

letmeeatcrisps · 25/05/2022 22:39

all babies are different! My first was like this and woke every two hours at least for the first year and still wakes more in the night than my 3 month old. My 3 month old has been sleeping 4 hour stretches since he was born pretty much

all babies are different OP don’t beat yourself up about it

Katy4321 · 25/05/2022 22:49

My baby is six months and I place her I in the cot awake after a feed. I stay within sight and gently say the same things over to her such as ' it's time for some sleep now'. She will often be quite vocal, as she fall asleep making 'creaky' sounds. If she starts crying I reasure her more and get her out for a feed and cuddle. She is gradually getting better and better at going down for a nap - hopefully confident it is 'safe ' to sleep and I won't be far away. It sometimes all goes wrong and takes ages, but the way I try to think about it is this time won't last long and try to enjoy it. Her cot is next ro the bed so I get a rest too.

N4ish · 25/05/2022 22:54

Really don’t think putting her through 30 minutes of crying/screaming is worth it just for a pretty short nap.

Also agree with @Lowkeyloopy that the ‘no eye contact’ guidance seems cruel when dealing with a distressed little baby. And that working on consistent sleep associations is the gentle way of sleep training.

TheTonEffect · 26/05/2022 04:02

You might just have a baby that cries before they go to sleep, I know mine does!! Even if he's moving in the pram or sling or having a contact nap he tends to cry for a little bit and then falls asleep.

I don't think the comments about the OP's methods being "cruel" are helpful. She's clearly trying her best from the information she has read. Welcome to motherhood OP - where the books say one thing, the onlookers say another and baby firmly refuses to co-operate with either Grin

Either way, don't sweat it. You'll look back and feel silly for obsessing about baby naps so much. It's a rabbit hole we all go down.

sjxoxo · 26/05/2022 04:08

I agree with a pp who said your standards are too high. Why are you bothering with the nap in cot? You don’t have to nap in the cot or follow a strict routine. 30 mins of upset is definitely not worth it! I wouldn’t bother. Take off all the pressure and forget putting her down for nap time - just do your day and let jet fall asleep in pram, on playmat etc etc. There’s no right or wrong way- just stop doing what is causing her to be upset. At this age you don’t need to bother with doing ot ‘properly’!!

Fleur405 · 26/05/2022 04:22

I think the goal may be a little too ambitious - your little one will achieve that it but doesn’t seem like she is ready (and she is only 20 weeks or so). It sounds like as soon as she gets into the dark room she knows what’s going to happen and gets upset. it may be that the routine itself has become associated with distress and if so you’re in something of a viscous circle.

Personally I’d go right back to letting her fall asleep in your arms and start again gently with a routine when she’s ready.

problem is books/society tell us babies “should” do x/y/z and when it comes to sleep that is all about making them conform to our adult schedule. That happens to works for some babies but not for others.

Fleur405 · 26/05/2022 04:23

Obviously that should not say viscous circle but presumably you get my drift….!

Shipsafeinharbour · 26/05/2022 04:54

There isn't actually much evidence behind wake windows etc. I'd really recommend reading "The Discontented Little Baby Book" - it's an evidenced based approach to baby sleep - the concepts are pretty much as @sjxoxo advises - don't worry about their day time sleep at this age just get on with your day. It has saved me so much stress and makes the days more enjoyable.

Lowkeyloopy · 26/05/2022 06:56

One thing to add from my earlier post - I think that just because a baby can’t yet put themselves to sleep, it doesn’t mean they can’t self soothe if they wake up during the night. My DS needs to be rocked to sleep at night after a big feed but then sleeps for long stretches - he pulled 9.5 hours out of the bag last night! But he was definitely awake at various points as I woke up and heard him. So if you need a goal or reassurance that your DD is self soothing, maybe focus on the night wakings instead, rather than the initial put down?

TulipsGarden · 26/05/2022 06:59

Mine absolutely would not fall asleep on his own in the cot, he just got so upset and then I got upset, and it didn't seem worth it when I could cuddle him to sleep and he'd sleep well. So that's what I did. I figured I wouldn't be cuddling him to sleep when he was 18. I was very fortunate in that he sleeps deeply once asleep, so it was easy to transfer him.

At around 2.5 he suddenly said he wanted to go in the cot, so now we just sit with him, sometimes hold a hand, sometimes sing. He still doesn't like to be left alone, but I don't mind really and he sleeps very well.

I was quite routine-driven when he was little because it worked for him and me, so I wouldn't say I'm particularly 'go with the flow'. But I just didn't see the point in both of us being upset every naptime.

TulipsGarden · 26/05/2022 07:01

Oh and naps happened wherever - if we were home then transfer to cot, but if out then pram/car fine. The vast majority of his afternoon naps would have been pram naps when I was on mat leave, because I wanted to go for a walk!

lemondrop72 · 26/05/2022 07:02

We were still contact napping at this age. Unless our in the car/pram.

Don't put so much pressure on yourself or you baby op. My dd is now 13 months and sleep great during the day with no issues and has been doing since about 9 months.
5 months old is so little! I don't know any baby of that age that can be put down awake and magically drift off to sleep.

Make yourself a cuppa, get comfy and let her sleep on you for now

Sbena · 26/05/2022 07:47

If she cries when you put her in the sack it could be because she knows she has to go to sleep. That's a good thing that the association is there.

Honestly I would keep doing what you're doing. It's really good that you're beginning early with the positive associations, and REALLY good that she'll sometimes sleep for 2 hours (mine still doesn't at 10mo). She's still very little, but you are teaching her what she needs to know. Over time it does get easier - keep being consistent with every nap time and doing the same thing.

And if you need a nap off once in a while, there's always the stroller/carseat!

Whoatealltheminieggs · 26/05/2022 07:51

I was rocking to sleep at that age. She started just going off on her own when she was about 11 months. I think it’s easier to give them what they need at that age.

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