I think my dd1 is showing signs of OCD and that I am making them worse.

[toomanydaves]

she's 8. She last did this a few years ago, but she has started having all these tics, like drumming her fingers together, sweeping her clothes, doing things in a strange order. I find her a strange little person in many ways - she seems very at a loss sometimes, doesn't seem to have much WILL or AGENCY compared to her friends, can be very dull, dithers a lot, dreams. When she is NOT being like this she is witty, funny, bright and popular, and it is as if she has two sides.Because there is history of mental illness in my side of the familiy, whenever she exhibits any strange traits I completely freak and get anxious and therefore angry. I have just completely bawled her out, which obviously is not going to help her with her lack of agency/will as it will scupper her confidence and make her more self-conscious/anxious. I am aware of this and am constantly trying to improve my responses but today it caught me out. I just wondered if anyone has similar experiences and what they find helpful. I feel very scared and sad for her. She is a beautiful person.

What is lack of will/agency? I honestly have no idea what you are talking about.

She seems to lack confidence profoundly. To not know what to do with herself. To need a hell of a lot of direction. To be unbossy to the point of pathology. That's what I mean by will/agency. Sorry if not clear.

If she does have OCD, I guess that is incredibly controlled and powerful will/agency which might exhaust her and leave her less able to exert will in more normal ways.

Can't write a long post now but of course bawling her out won't help and freaking even less - you know this already. I speak from personal experience, as the 'child'. Will come back to this when I can - tonight or at the weekend.

Please do Berolina, I am very stuck.

It does sound as if she is anxious about something, Is there a problem at school?
It does sound like ocd, although the tics if she does not seem to know she is doing it have you thought about Tourettes?

Obviously you know your daughter better than anyone and only you will know if there is something wrong. BUT if it makes you feel any better I remember having certain what would probably be termed OCD tendencies when I was a child - little obsessions that I had more or less forgotten about but reading your post just reminded me...

I used to have a little mantra that I would repeat (in my head) each time I entered a different room in the house. I used to have to do certain things in the same order every night before going to bed, had a thing about checking light switches, etc. I am talking about the years between 8-10 roughly. I don't remember my parents ever making an issue of it and to be honest by the time I was a teenager I had well and truly grown out of it.

I guess what I am trying to say is that given your family history you may well be extra cautious and looking for things which could possibly be explained as 'normal' childhood behaviour which your daughter will grow out of. Having said that, as I mentioned earlier, only you know your DD and am certainly not trying to second guess anything. Maybe just keep an eye on her behaviour for a while - quietly without drawing her attention to the fact you may think something is wrong?

Also speaking from a degree of experience as "the child".

1. Some degree of OCD traits/tics etc is normal in all of us, children or adults, but keep an eye, to see if these traits get worse such that they affecting your DD's overall quality of life.

1. If your DD does have a predisposition towards OCD, then it's vital that her anxiety and stress levels are kept as stable as possible - as an anxiety disorder OCD feeds on stress. So be POSITIVE - try not to freak, and try to accept her as she is. If she feels she isn't acceptable as she is that will feed any anxiety and make any OCD traits worse. Instead of "DULL" try see her as thoughtful/observant. If she isn't as outgoing/energetic as her peers, so what?

3.there is no guarantee that any child may not develop a mental health problem at some point in their life- but even if this happens, it may well be relatively mild and treatable. Try your best to enjoy your child, rather than living in constant fear.

Has she or your family had to cope with any changes or stressful experiences recently? Sometimes kids dislike change or stress and react by either developing tendencies like this or regressing to ones they had before. The definition of OCD would tend to include whether these behaviours are interfering with her life and her development - are they? How is she getting on at school both academically and socially? Does she have friends she sees out of school? Can she talk about the behaviours? Sorry lots of questions, but I am a psychologist! I'd perhaps suggest talking to her about these behaviours when shes calm, finding things to praise that she does well or tries hard at. If you are really worried or it doesn't get better maybe ask her teachers or talk to your GP.

Hmm. These are good responses thank you. Christmas has been stressful. I have been working away and my relationship with dp has been under strain for the past year. We have tried to keep things calm for the children but she is v sensitive and has probably picked up on this. You are absolutely right that I need to not draw attention to it. I have a tendency to leap on her when I see any weird behaviours. I know it is not helpful, but I am on my own a lot with the kids and when I am tired I seem not so able to control my fear/anxiety response to it. Does anyone know what I could do about that? She does so well at so many things. She is a total peach. I do always debrief at the end of the day and tell her she is beautiful and wonderful, but at the moment (last 3 days only) I feel the negative outweighs the positive, and I sound like my mother rounding on me.

Just remind yourse4lf that a nervous tic, or nervous behavior pattern, is not naughtiness, it's stress. You wouldn't tell an adult off for doing it, so stop seeing her 'oddnesses' as a judgement upon your parenting - because I'm guessing that is the reason they annoy you so much.

When she does it, instead of thinking "why is she doing that? It looks really strange, what's the matter with her now? Why does she always do this when people are looking, they'll think I mistreat her or something..." etcetc

which I bet is what runs through your mind...

Try to stop yourself and ask yourself what her stress is in that situation. New people? Pressure to be quiet/behave? Waiting for something? Just been naughty and therefore just been told off?

Right, see how far I get (typing one-handed and guests due any minute).

Leaping on her is not a good idea, from a psychological but also a practical point of view - when I was leapt on (by angry/hysteriocal/frightened parents) it 'interrupted' what I had to do and afterwardas I had to sneak off, under unbelievable levels of stress, and do it all again. It will not 'shock' her out of it - at least it is unlikely to. Think, for example, about CBT (which it might be worth looking into if this does seem to be a real problem) - it needs several sessions of gradually building up 'exposure' to the anxiety.

My OCD reduced very, very markedly in severity when I left the situation that was causing me a great dealö of stress, which in my case (I was 16/17/18) was a combination of home and school. You need to look at/talk to her about what's happening in her life - calmly. See if you can identify any 'flashpoints'.

Threadworm's point is excellent. Before the OCD I had an episode of anorexia. It didn't last long but I remember being, for the first time ever, very apathetic - partly due to the lack of nutrition, of course, but it was also the mental energy going into it. And OCD is immensely tiring too.

She doesn't have 'two' sides. It's likely her 'good' side and her 'OCD' (or whatever) side are two sides of very much the same coin. Sensitivity and brightness sometimes coexist quite naturally with conditions like these (as they are, in many ways, very basically 'thinking too much'). Please, please don't see it as a flaw which spoils everything else. That was how my parents saw me - and made it clear. Try and see it as simply a part of her right now, and concentrate any dislike of it on the fact that it is stopping her feel happy in and confident of herself.

TC is spot on with her point no. 1. Humans need to control and order the world, and OCD is a way of ordering the world. It - or rather the rituals that emerge from it - provides structure, something to hold on to. At my worst I literally felt like I couldn't trust my own memory. This goes back to what I said about the 'flashpoints' - what/where are the situations in which she might feel out of control, like she needs something to hold on to?

Re your own anxiety about her and the behaviours I would suggest firstly you make sure you do your best to look after you too. Identify some time each day or several times a week, even if short to start with, where you can relax. Look on it like taking medicine and don't put it off or cancel it. Make a list of all the things you find relaxing and you may have to try some new things or dig deep for what you used to find relaxing. The more relaxed she sees you the more relaxed she will be. Secondly when you have the negative thoughts in your head about her behaviours write them down, what do they mean to you, what are you afraid of, for her, for you, for the future? Then try to think and write down all the evidence that these thoughts, each one in turn, is true and all the evidence that it is not. Then you generate an alternative thought based on this. Something like ' My lovely girl is just trying to make herself feel safe'. This is a CBT aaproach for you, based on your thinking patterns and altering them. They will be more negative when you are stressed, tired, angry, or sad. Writing it all down sounds time consuming but thoughts on paper get them out your head and let you look at them objectively and return to them later. This approach will take time though, so don't beat yourself up if you still get cross with her, look on the goal as reducing it at first. We as adults probably forget how scary and confusing the world can feel to a child.

Thank you all for these very sage and helpful posts. You have made me cry with your thoughfulness and I am normally a reptilian,tough old bird. Colditz it's not the judgment on my parenting I fear, it's her going through what I went through as a child/teenager/young adult. I am still trying to catch up from all the years I wasted being mentally ill and all the horror I went through, and I am so desperate that she won't go through the same thing. Pralinegirl your suggestions are excellent. I will try. The thing is I get so flooded with emotion when I see her doing this that I can't always intercept myself until I have blown a fuse first. This is what I need to work on; maybe writing it all down will help.

The problem of being overwhelmed by emotion is a tough one. I suggest to people in my work that they write the thoughts down afterwards at times like this, later, but not so late that they forget exactly what they were thinking at the time. Then deal with them as if you'd just thought them - the distance can actually help you challenge them. Then later, as they overwhelm you less you can deal with them more easily. By the way - you are not a bad mother - its your worry for her which leads to these thoughts - don't be hard on yourself.

Thanks Praline. I will buy a notebook tomorrow and see what happens...... I am a writer so writing things down shouldn't be difficult.

Hi toomanydaves, i can't realy offer any good advice but my 4 year old dd suffers from anxiety, we thought she had OCD as she likes evrything done the same each time (if she has toast for breakfast on monday she has to have it again on tue, wed thur...etc), she lines up objects in order of colour and size. She also preferes to be around men and gets anxious around women.

Dh suffers from depression ans his family have a history of mental illness.

Its taken me 6 months to get dd settled in nursery and i am worried about school in september.

Sorry i can't offer any advice but just to add you are not a bad mother.

Hi Daves
Just a quick post to say you are not alone. I too have started posts about ds2 - worried about him having OCD. I don't have any answers but have taken a lot of encouragement from fellow MNers who live with or have once lived with OCD and cope fine.
As you know yourself the more you stress about your dd's behaviour the worse it will get. We have been through a phase of ds obsessively needing to check that the doors are locked at night. We have tried to keep it low key and let him check. In fact I have pre-empted him from getting up at night by reminding him to check before he goes up. This seems to have done the trick and ds hasn't checked for the last week.

Good luck.

Just so you dont feel you are alone -When my ds was young he too appeared to have OCD tendencies - constant hand washing until sore and red, a ritualised way of leaving the house, doors having to be shut, having to walk a certain walk to school etc plus dreaminess, disorganisation, forgetfulness, obsessions with bedtimes etc etc Ive forgotten a lot of them but they worried me a lot at the time and i used to get upset, angry and frustrated out of worry. He was later diagnosed with severe dyslexia and dyspraxia and i think the rituals were his way of having some control over a world that he felt he didnt fully fit in. with a lot of love and encouragement he has grown into a lovely 14yr old but it is difficult not to feel alienated from them when you dont understand why they are like they are. You are doing the right thing talking on here and im sure there are more knowledgable people on here that can support you.Best of luck