Question for bilingual families - how necessary are bilingual schools really?

[Brangelina]

I've just been to a presentation for a bilingual preschool/school as I'm toying with the idea of sending my DD there next year. DD (2.6) is bilingual English/Italian although English is her minority language at present as I'm the only influence (DP and nursery both Italian), hence my interest in perhaps consolidating her English by increasing exposure to it. It was just an idea as I wasn't entirely convinced it was necessary (plus it's v. expensive), particularly as we travel quite frequently to the UK to visit relatives or they come to us.

However, at the presentation this morning I was told that the OPOL method where only one parent speaks the language is insufficient once past the early years as the child doesn't get to develop the language beyond a purely social context and would have problems expressing themselves in the future in an academic or work context. Is this true or total bolleaux? Has anyone any direct experience with themselves or older DCs?

Brangelina - having banged my head on the kitchen table (again, there's a fink-sized hole) helping ds2 with his homework, I offer you the following advice.

Send your dd to the local Italian nursery then school. That'll give her a good grounding in Italian grammar & set her up in that. She'll also have a good social network.
She's only 2.6 and you'll notice her English come on over the next 12 months and increasingly as she gets older. You have frequent contact with family & if you supplement OPOL with DVDs, CDs, tapes, comics & books on a regular basis & treat it as the most natural thing on earth, she'll be fine. When she's older, if she has a good basis, you'll be able to build on that.

(Unless you have a wonderful free bilingual school around the corner - sadly, most of us don't.)

The OPOL thing you were told may be true for some parents & some children but I think it's "bolleaux" as it's a huge variable. They want your money anyway so hardly impartial.

Now I must return to explain to ds2 again about nouns and upper case and bang bang bang.

Am also focussing on confidence building as I've noticed that ds1 is outgoing and chatty and engages more and that must have some influence on his language skills whereas ds2 & dd are much shyer and don't interact as much...

So very glad I've happened across this thread, as everything in it reflects my own worries.

We live in France and me and dh are English. 3dcs go to local state schools, which are French-speaking. They are bi-lingual after 3.5 years.

However, I DO worry about their written English and their understanding of English grammar etc. We have only UK TV, only English books (apart from what they bring back from school) and I insist that they talk and play in English at home and when we are all together. In fact, they tell me that they speak English to each other even when they're at school with their French friends. I'm desperate for this to continue, and try and do English "homework" with them on a Wednesday. I've taught my 6 year old dd to read in English using phonics, and we try (but don't always succeed) to read to them every night.

In 2 years my eldest ds goes to college. Do I send him to the local one where his mates go but the English provision is truly dire, or send him to the local Catholic school (20 minute drive) which has an international secion where they are taught some subjects in English.

What I hope to give them in the end, is a real choice about where they want to live and work.

PS love your idea, Francemum. Wish we had some English kids around here...

Truly - my DD starts collège in September and she's most likely to be going to a State one in the city with an International section, because the idea of her wasting time learning basic verbs makes me wince! But the key thing is that she's keen to go there too and likes the idea of having some lessons in English. What does your son think?

Brangelina i think the Opol is talking bollocks, my nephew speaks and writes good Italian/he attended an English state school. His accent is pretty good. I think a bit of reading in English on a regular basis, dvds,playmates, visits to UK will be sufficient to make your dd bilingual I wouldn't worry.

dd writes almost perfect English, which she has learned solely by reading English books (attended French and German schools, after short period in reception in UK). English really is incredibly easy to get the grammar/spelling for, as long as you speak it.

I learned all my english spelling & punctuation from reading anyway, and I grew up in the UK!

Really, I dont think keeping up English is something to get stressed about. Just make sure they have plenty of reading material, the Beano as well as Charles Dickens.

Also, IME, it really doesnt matter if your child learns english reading a bit later. You cant compare your child (still learning at 8) to his monolingual peers in teh UK who have been reading english since 5.

ds1 is 9, he now reads english well. ds2 is 8, and we are still learning. I'm not worried - the poor boy has been taught in french and german, it really doesnt matter that he is only now catching up with written english!

Totally agree with Finknottle Brangelina.
Also, believe me I have met some Italian students coming from the International school. It is not a lovely environment, or at least it wasn't so some years a go.
We can def meet as regularly as we can with the children and force them to speak English. I was also thinking to put an ad in Bocconi, see if some English student wants to babysit...

I have just looked at the website of your council and I'm appalled at the number of asili comunali there, only 6 . what is the social composition of that town, is it just sahm or people with grandparents working as nannies? lets write a petition!

Lol, I've actually sent an email already to the assessore for education, berating him on the lack of school places for atheist families. Of course I've not heard back from him. I agree with Finknottle too, I just need to get that state school place....

Lots of grandparents around here, if you wander around the town centre during the week you see a huge number of over 60s wheeling buggies. I don't think they've all been for fertility treatment .

SSSandy - re your post about an English teaching group - I must (and will, promise) email you about the library idea - that might be a base to offer that sort of thing.

('Tis berolina going through an abbreviated phase )

I have only just seen this wow I had eliminated the English school due to it being away from possible circles of friends - I suffered at being the outsider when I went to a private school away from where i lived. But now I am having second thoughts.
I had hoped to try to help Dd with her reading and writing in English with the help of correct books and if needed the computer and TV. I have a friend whose mother did just that and she went to English Uni ( after Italian schools). Here we do not have much choice regarding schools and teh private ish school has good results but very little sport and they are there until 4.30 every day plus compiti !!

Sorry for being so slow in getting back here

Setting up the school has been hard work particularly as my French is not fantastic. Having said that, it's been well worth it to see my DDs come on so well with their English which was really starting to slide.

For those that asked, we are based in Dept 86 - Civray and if you want to have a look at what we do, here is our website (which desparately needs updating so don't be tooo critical please!).

If you do want any pointers on setting something up, feel free to contact me through the website - bureaucracy is going to be a nightmare in most countries but it is a good way of getting yourself out and about aswell as getting the DC's educated!!

OOPS! it should read desperately - now you know why I need someone else to teach my DD's

Does it really need to be official? I quite like the idea of doing a Saturday morning club - do you get a lot of comers or are the French like the Italians and prefer to stay "en famille" at the weekends?

Hello all -

have just skimmed this v interesting thread...

We are in Denmark, dh danish, me english. 4dcs in primary, nursery and daycare (all danish) We speak english at home.

Our eldest, dd1 is turning 9, and I would say her reading in english and danish are equal, despite not learning much english at school. Her class has just started, so are doing "hello, my name is..." Yet dd1 has always received magazines and books from granny in England, so sees things in english as a treat I suppose.

But danish is definitely their first spoken language (all of them). They know I can understand them, so they just chatter away in danish.

Brangelina... if childcare is an issue (haven't read closely enough) - have you thought of an au pair, if you have room? We paid equivalent of 300 GBP (400ish euro) per month last summer - worked really well

You know, I had vaguely entertained the idea of an au pair and would actually love to have one (I was an au pair once) but unfortunately we have a bit of a space issue. I am toying with the idea of finding a live out one, though. Just depends on whether we get a place in the state school as that would free up the money for one (live out ones are a lot more expensive).

We get a mixture of French and English to the Saturday Club (which is for 3-5 yr olds) - at the moment we have 6 Eng & 4 Fr but we only started a couple of weeks ago so hopefully this will increase as the word gets out. The English classes for English speakers require English as a mother tongue (otherwise the vocab isn't wide enough. We set it up 'officially' so that hopefully it will continue for years to come and help the local kids with their English aswell. If you can get a group of kids together informally once a week with adult input, it would work too.

Hello,

I am so glad I have found this thread.

I am French married to an Englishman. We have a 22 months' old baby girl and live in London. We want to bring up our daughter bilingual (written, spoken etc. My husband does not speak a word of French therefore we speak English at home. At present French is the minority language and English the majority language

We have adopted the one parent, one language system. Although I only speak French to my little girl I can tell that she picks up far more English partly because she has no native French speaking peers who can play in French with her.

In view of this we have decided to send her (I shall go with her of course) to a maternelle in France in 2010 (moyenne section, grande section and CP).

In 2010, my husband will therefore commute from London and spend every other weekend in France with us. We will come back to London every French school holiday where she wil engage with English speaking children during holiday activities (Stagecoach etc..) and be taught to write and read in English by an English teacher (her Godfather!).

So far, so good. However my dilemma is for now, in London. I would like to send her two or three mornings to a nursery but am not sure whether I should put her into an English nursery, French nursery or a mixture of both?

Is it better that she attends an English nursery in view of the fact that she will be in a maternelle in France for some time? or should we prepare her for the maternelle. We would like of course that both languages get equal balance.

Many thanks for your thoughts

Yvette

Yvette - why don't you just send your child to a French school in London?

Message withdrawn

Hello,

Many thanks.

It is not as easy as that to send children to the French Lycee ( circa £2000 per annum). Priority is given to those who come from the French system in France. The waiting list is pretty long though.

Anna, there are some French nurseries in London which 'might' faciltate entry to the French Lycee but the waiting lists are terrible and the cost circa £2000+ per term. My daughter is on waiting lists since she was 3 months'old but is not guaranteed a place. Indeed a couple of friends, on waiting lists, had their children rejected the 3 nurseries concerned would not give their criteria of selection.

Pitchounette, yes we are planning to come back in the UK. I think that we might try to reinforce her French.