DC(4) constant nagging for food

[Heartbeats0708]

My four year old constantly asks/thinks/talks about food and it's slowly driving me to distraction. She eats well, and a varied diet, so it's not just picking. It's not just junk food she asks for either, although there is plenty of whining for that, but it's clear that she is always thinking about when it's next time to eat and what she might have.
She negotiates for more food all the time.
I don't know what to do or how to handle it without causing/worsening (?) her relationship with food. Fruit and vegetables are given on request more often than not, unless I think she's really taking the piss.
If she hasn't finished her meal and complains of being hungry, I give it back to her, so she doesn't just ask to get something different. I do think she has too much sugar and would like to work on this.
Any gentle pointers on how to respond to the constant requests and/or snack ideas would be gratefully received.

Is she thirsty instead of hungry? The signals can be confused. Is it too long between eating? Growth spurt? Portion sizes too small?

The same part of your brain is responsible for interpreting both hunger and thirst signals which can often result in mixed messages. You should aim to eat every three to four hours, and if you feel hungry between meals, you may simply be thirsty.

Thanks for the reply! I don't think so, she drinks water but tends to have a big drink every once in a while rather than sips. Something to monitor though.
We barely get through an hour without her eating something! If we're at home especially. We usually eat at around 7.30, 12 and 4.30 but there's always snacks in between and her meals are a good size. More often than not she finishes them too. E.g two slices of toast at breakfast, a (my) fist sized jacket potato and third of a tin of beans at lunch, two egg omlette and vegetables/cheese for dinner. So not small portions, especially when you add in the fucking endless extras.
Hoping not another growth spurt, she's already top end of centile for height and weight.

Is it boredom? Is your DD at school yet. Perhaps you could enrole her in some classes to keep her active?

Boredom I'm sure contributes at times. Not yet at school, but does do her 15hrs a week. She's not keen on watching TV/playing games so is on the go from the moment she opens her eyes, and I find it hard to keep her entertained every minute of the day?! I'm sure that makes me sound like a crap mother, but in between activities her attention instantly turns to food. I have a chronic health condition and tire easily but I do my best to do stuff with her in and out of the house.

@Heartbeats0708 Thanks for posting this as I am in the exact same boat with my 4 yr old. She’s 98% for weight and about 50th for height (o think). She just constantly thinks about food, it’s the first question she asks when I collect her from nursery etc. It’s hard when we meet a friend and the parent allows them to snack endlessly because mine moans and won’t leave my side until we I’ve given her something. We do breakfast about 8am, lunch at 12.30-1pm and dinner around 5pm so they don’t get afternoon snacks and morning snack I’m trying to do something like crackers/fruit/those oatcake biscuits. But it’s relentless and we’re trying to give her smaller portions than her sibling (some yrs older) without her noticing. Sibling eats well but not that bothered about food really.

Does she get enough sleep? I think they sometimes mistake tiredness for hunger at that age. Or any age really, I definitely eat more when I've slept badly.

@southlondoner02 she generally sleeps pretty well I think, averages 10 hours with one wake up for tucking in usually.
@Fluffruff it's Hard isn't it?! It must be even trickier trying to balance her needs with your older child's too. I'm considering speaking to a HV or GP to see if there's something I'm doing really wrong.
She's going to end up absolutely huge if she carries on and I'm feeling the responsibility. I know a fair bit about healthy eating but I feel out of my depth here, who am I to say if it's genuine hunger or not? I know she eats a lot but I also know how active she is. There's plenty of room for improvement with snacks, but even the "boring" ones get demolished.

My daughter is the same. I think it’s boredom, as when we are out and about and busy she asks a lot less! no suggestions I’m afraid, following for advice too.

Yeah same here @modgepodge we had a really busy weekend and it wasn't like this at all. It's exhausting though and I'm paying the price now- I'm completely wiped out and so is she (overtired and argumentative!).

Do you give into her when she asks? If you do, then it makes sense that she'll request food and keep requesting, as she knows that it works. Have you tried setting out a food routine which you are happy with, with set times for meals and snacks, explaining to her and sticking to it. If she asks for food then acknowledge that she's hungry and that she'll have to wait. "You want to have an apple. You must be hungry. It's not snack time right now, but you can have an apple at snack time". If you are consistent then it might stop the constant requests.

What does she have on the toast in the morning? Mine were like this and giving them eggs for breakfast in any form or greek yogurt and a slice of ham or cheese really helped to break the constant asking for food.

Is she veggie? There's not much protein in that, or fat tbh but quite carb heavy (and you say too much sugar).

Might be with you shifting the balance of foods to see if keeps her satisfied for longer.

I've got teens but have started giving them bacon/sausages for breakfast and there's a notable difference in their hunger throughout the day after this compared with just toast/cereal.

If she is veggie what about increasing nut butters/cheese/hummus at least? Making sure she has briwn seeded toast

If I have jacket with beans In full fit about two hours and then have a MASSIVE blood sugar crash and feel awful. Having it with meat/cheese really helps

Mine is exactly the same - would eat from morning until night. She's between the 50th and 75th centiles for height and weight. She's at nursery full time, has breakfast at home, then breakfast at nursery, then snack, lunch, tea and then a small dinner at home, then a snack before bed.

If she is actually hungry, she'll eat fruit or cheese or cold meat and crackers, otherwise she just wants sweet stuff which we limit. And she does stop when she's full - I think she just has a small tummy so prefers to eat little and often. Also, she never stops moving - even if I try to get her to sit still with tv while I cook dinner, she's jiggling around, hanging upside down in the sofa, dancing around in front of the tv.

Sometimes I do think it's boredom, in which case she gets water or milk offered. But She also does get hangry - I notice her behaviour gets much worse if I don't feed her on time!

And when it's really full on, it seems that a few days later, all her trousers and T-shirts are too short, so I do think sometimes it's a growth spurt.

No advice, just wanted you to know, you're not alone!

What about a visual timetable for meals and snacks? That way she can see what meals and snacks she has had and what is still going to be available and then offer drinks at all other times. Ensure she’s getting enough protein which is more filling.

I’ve been overweight since childhood and it started around 5 years old. I have one child whom I was determined would never be overweight and he’s nearly 18 years now and is a normal height and weight. When he was very young I made sure he had a healthy protein source at each meal before he ate his carbohydrates. I still struggle with my weight now (50 years old) however I was diagnosed with hashimotos hypothyroidism and looking back at my life I can see that this may have started in childhood (to a lesser degree) and that is why I was always hungry as a child. It’s tough but you are doing the right thing getting help a lifetime of obesity from childhood is a difficult one in my experience that is. Good luck 🍀

Does she still nap? 12hours sleep would still be quite normal at that age. I’d also add something to the toast at breakfast- egg/beans or I’d swap it for porridge & banana/berries/nut butter

Lots to think about here, thank you all so much! Sorry if I get muddled up trying to reply to each of you.
@nearlyspringyay more often than not it's jam or a drizzle of honey on the toast. She's not wild about eggs but used to like eggy bread, maybe I could try that for breakfast. I think a schedule would be a good idea, but it will take some thought as between nursery and going to her dad's timings are not always in my control. Certainly not impossible though! (Will help with her telling the time too). @toastofthetown I don't always give in but my inconsistency in when I do probably is adding fuel to the fire.
@Matchingcollarandcuffs no not veggie, sorry that last post was misleading, was just easier to give examples of portion sizes with carbs.
@Iliketeaagain that's the trouble, it would seem like she is always hungry! Very rarely turns down fruit, veg sticks, hummus, crackers, stick of cheese etc. Definitely relate to the hangry thing!
@Greydogs123 I think a timetable is the way to go. We do have a rough routine but I think making it more visual could be really helpful, for when she's with me at least.
I struggled with my weight too @Fit50 and still do to an extent. I do think some of it genetic (have you read why we eat too much? Fascinating but made me feel a bit powerless too).
@Mummumtum absolutely no chance of a nap, hasn't for several years. I made us a full breakfast at the weekend and it made no difference! But protein is always good.

I’d maybe try to get her sleeping longer at night, if she’s tired she’ll be looking for food to keep her going

@Mummumtum i do think she could do with a bit more sleep but it's one of those easier said than done things isn't it. She's been having some difficulty getting to sleep these last few nights, probably overtired, but a typical night it'd be in bed at 7, asleep by quarter past and waking around 6. She usually wakes up once around midnight for tucking in but goes back to sleep pretty quickly. Sometimes wakes earlier (more like 5, or nights like last night where she didn't sleep til gone 8.

@Mummumtum i do think she could do with a bit more sleep but it's one of those easier said than done things isn't it. She's been having some difficulty getting to sleep these last few nights, probably overtired, but a typical night it'd be in bed at 7, asleep by quarter past and waking around 6. She usually wakes up once around midnight for tucking in but goes back to sleep pretty quickly. Sometimes wakes earlier (more like 5, or nights like last night where she didn't sleep til gone 8.

@Mummumtum i do think she could do with a bit more sleep but it's one of those easier said than done things isn't it. She's been having some difficulty getting to sleep these last few nights, probably overtired, but a typical night it'd be in bed at 7, asleep by quarter past and waking around 6. She usually wakes up once around midnight for tucking in but goes back to sleep pretty quickly. Sometimes wakes earlier (more like 5, or nights like last night where she didn't sleep til gone 8.

Not an area I have any expertise in but two thoughts: only ever offer veg or a limited amount of fruit when she asks for food, and if she doesn't eat it she's not really hungry. Also, how about a watch or a clock so she can more easily understand that at X o'clock we have snack and not before, ie stop asking me for it every 5 seconds!! She may be a bit young for this though.

Similar on the food requests, but not on the weight.
My 9th centile boy, at that age, was having breakfast, second breakfast, snack, lunch, snack, tea, dinner. It was endless.
Is there anything she isnt fussed by? DS used to get offered a banana (his brother got cereal) if food requests came in after that lot. If that was eaten, I knew he was hungry and would loosen the fridge access again.

Aged 13, he can still finish a meal with the question "what for next meal?", although over the years, the snacks and second breakfast have mainly gone.

The examples you've written are very carby and low fat. All those carbs will be converted into sugars by her body, and won't keep her full for very long. If I were you, I would feed her something with much more protein and fat for breakfast, such as Greek yogurt with seeds and nuts, or ham omelette with a buttery toast.

@Miriam101 she's getting the hang of telling the time so I've been giving this a go today. So far so good but it's been a busy day so farwith plenty to distract. Veg and fruit will be eaten, she very rarely refuses.
@JurasicPerks not really! I suppose I'm wondering whether I need to change the snacks or aim to cut them right back. Or a bit of both?!
@MimosaFields those examples are not the complete meals, I was just offering a bit of perspective re portion sizes. So for example the omlette will have cheese, mushrooms and ham or bacon in and potatoes on the side, the jacket potato will usually have tuna or beans plus cucumber/carrot sticks etc.