Do you punish your child with ADHD?

[ColourfulOnesie]

Is there any point?
Is there anything at all they respond to?

Another thing I’ve found is that sometimes he does better to have the reward during the task rather than at the end (in psychological terms classical conditioning rather than operant) so for example we have dessert while he does homework.

I do something similar listening to podcasts or Netflix while I do the housework.

I’m also on board with bribery, or him working out what he needs to manage hard things, and we chat about whether X was as hard as he expected, how he might motivate himself differently, how he’s better at hard things than he thinks. I don’t want him to think he can just negotiate his price all the time but I do want him to become mindful of what he needs

As a Senco, I’ve seen many children with ADHD. By far the vast majority of those children that are able to ‘manage’ their ADHD have benefitted from parents who don't automatically put everything down to their child’s diagnosis and therefore ascribe to the ‘don't challenge / punish / discipline’ school of parenting.
As with any child, its so important that they grow up knowing what the boundaries are - whatever those boundaries may be. Hopefully, parents will employ appropriate boundaries that allow for any child with additional needs to understand. Ensuring that any ‘discipline’ is positive, age appropriate and developmentally appropriate is vital.
Medication will help some children, but not all. It’s not the golden chalice some parents hope it is.

Not for things that happen because of his ADHD (or his autism) but if he's been an arsehole I have no problem telling him he's been an arsehole.
Same when he was a kid. Not the arsehole bit to his face but unacceptable bog standard kid behaviour unrelated to his disabilities yes, he got told off.

It sounds like the punishments are triggering him. Rejection sensitive dysphoria is common with adhd. A punishment would defiantly trigger this in him. He likely screams because there's too many emotions in his body and doesn't know how to handle them. I'm an adult with adhd and that's how it feels to me. Like I'm going to explode from emotions. It's basically being over whelmed. Teaching him how to regulate those emotions, finding out does sensory input or deprivation help him, finding healthy outlets for him , as well as trying as best you can not to trigger the intense feelings is probably going to work best , along side a reward based system.

I know there's a degree of lack of impulse control that comes with being 6, and it's obviously much worse with ADHD, but I'd be quite disturbed that at the age of six his impulse is to strangle his younger sister. That goes beyond "normal violence" and might be worth investigating with a psychologist.

@MolliciousIntent he doesn’t strangle her, it’s more if she’s bugging him (which she does often, she wants his attention a lot 🙄) he’ll kind of love her out of the way by her neck, rather than just shoving her by her shoulder or something
It’s something that comes up a lot though and I draw a hard line at touching anyones necks which is why I listed it in my examples as then him getting told off causes a huge meltdown and it lasts all day - he also feels wronged by it as he was just reacting to her winding him up

A couple of responses have mentioned only punishing behaviour that isn’t caused by his adhd - how on earth do you differentiate?!

Move her out of the way* not love, if it did it lovingly my life would be much easier 🤦🏻‍♀️

This is such a simple sounding question but the answer is really complicated. I've always tried not to, because I believe it to be an ineffective method of teaching in the first place, but he's been the one that has driven me to it and occasionally responded to it really well. But at other times it doesn't really feel like it's doing anything at all and I feel like a complete dick for enacting any punishment because it felt so arbitrary, as though he had no control over whether he was getting punished or not.

At six we were most heavily using a points based reward system with token economy. This helped a lot. I can explain/elaborate on what we did if this would be helpful.

Have you listened to any Russell Barkley? Watched the "30 things parents should know" on youtube? Read his book Taking Charge or the new 12 step plan one?

How much do you know about executive functioning?

How much do you know about sensory overload and dysregulation?

Have you read any Ross Greene/What do you know about his CPS (collaborative problem solving aka Plan A/B/C) model?

I'd strongly recommend following the above leads. They have been the most helpful things to me. Again I can elaborate or give links. I don't want to overwhelm you if you already know these things.

The ADHD Dude on Youtube is great according to one of my friends with a very hyperactive boy. I like ADHD essentials, the podcast.

OK I've been back and read different posts.

About punishing behaviour not related to ADHD - sorry but this doesn't make sense to me - or maybe this was why DS1 responded well to some punishments but others felt unfair, perhaps I was just doing this instinctively? BTW he is now 13, and we have no behaviour problems. The only place the ADHD now shows itself is school, forgetfulness/anxiety, and he is still a bit prone to screen addictive behaviour. So I don't think it's the only way.

Explosive child - excellent. This is the Ross Greene method and it's really really good. One big change in thinking is that instead of having "rules" which are being "broken" you think instead about having expectations that your child is not meeting for whatever reason and you figure out why.

I would forget trying to apply the same process to everyone - this is never going to work for the simple fact that a 4yo and 12yo have totally different needs. Two different systems (one for the older two, one for the younger two) would be fair and less work than a completely individualised approach.

Medication makes a difference in the vast majority of cases.

It depends. I think natural consequences are important, but punishment breeds resentment and becomes locking horns.

I have adhd and of course punishments for bad behaviour worked for me, in fact I was desperate to avoid them as much as possible.

It depends what you term as bad behaviour as nothing would make me remember my packed lunch... but being violent towards a sibling - absolutely not.

Please though - don't make the 'that'll be ds' comments in front of him. My brother overheard similar and it really badly affected him. He's now very balanced and successful but there were some really long dark times based around his negative self perception.

@ColourfulOnesie
My son has ASD, not ADHD, - 17 now but when younger had a lot of challenging behaviours. Punishment never worked, natural consequences were better, but what really worked for us was identifying and addressing the triggers so we reduced the occurence of difficult behaviours.
I just wanted to pick up on the ‘strangling ‘ thing. This is something my son used to do me, he would be trying to put his arms around me but end up hanging off my neck, his hugs were like nothing I have ever experienced, the strength he had was incredible, he would also do things like squeeze my hand really tightly if I asked him to hold my hand.

A couple of posters have suggested you look into sensory processing and I would really recommend this. There is a book - Raising the Sensory Smart Child (sorry I forget the author) which was a revelation to me.
You can be either under senstive or over sensitive to sensory inputs. The book has checklists to help you work out which one. Turns out my son is under senstive so was always craving sensory input - hence the squeezing and other behaviours. I worked very hard on this - trampoline, scootering, weighted blankets and clothes, swings, swingball, carrying a heavy backpack. His behaviours improved significantly once he started getting the sensory input his body needed.
This may or may not be an issue for your child, they may be over sensitve so you would need different techniques - but well worth a look at.

@BertieBotts can you be my mentor you seem to be very knowledgeable! We so far have had one appointment at CAMHS where he was diagnosed on the spot but besides that I’ve had nothing, was pointed to a website, told to think about meds and told to come back in 4 weeks (which I had to ring and ring and ring about as I had no further communication and is only happening this week, 8 weeks later!) so I know very little about DS personally, if that makes sense, I read about adhd and the how’s and the whys but I really need to be able to say to someone ‘ok DS does xyz, how do I respond?’ Which is what I was expecting support wise from CAMHS but I’m starting to see I may not get - anyway my point being I don’t know much about anything you’ve asked except the sensory stuff! I know lots about that, he is a massive sensory seeker and this is the cause of lots and lots of distress, I am making note of everything you’ve told me to learn thank you!

@Ted27 how timely you mentioned sensory input just as I did
DS sounds exactly the same, he needs to touch me all the time, very tactile, but definitely loves too hard, squeezes, hits as a form of affection (I’m sure people don’t believe me on this but he genuinely does, a greeting from him can either be a big kiss or a punch and usually with no warning as to which it’ll be!) he has absolutely zero idea about personal space, but then he also does lots of spinning, twirling, climbing (oh the climbing) and generally just charging around and throwing himself about
He won’t sleep with a blanket, so the very expensive weighted blanket I bought didn’t work, he does like to do occasional heavy work for me like carrying things up abs down the stairs, we have a swing and climbing frame in the garden which he gets a lot out of, he also has fidget toys and things to chew on although I’ll be honest I almost feel like nothing is enough, he’s still like a little Duracell bunny morning to night … and during the night too 🤦🏻‍♀️

@ColourfulOnesie

I adopted my son at nearly 8 so had a very steep learning curve!
I don’t think I sat down for 2 years. I just kept him moving - we walked or scootered everywhere. We went swimming three or four times a week, walking a mile to the gym, hour in the pool,walk home. Tennis lesson on Saturdays - bashing hell out of a tennis ball worked a treat for getting out the aggression. I used his DLA to pay for a personal trainer once a week - ran him into the ground and did weights work with him - Sunday afternoons were much calmer after that !

You are all doing an amazing job 💐

Check out "@thechildhoodcollective" on Instagram. They specialise in support for parents of kids with ADHD. Lots of useful free advice.

No punishment
Riles routines and boundaries

@Ted27 wow I can imagine that was quite a shock to the system! Sounds like you’re doing an amazing job, wow I wish I could commit that much time to wearing DS out! Although I might steal your weight workout ideas, I have old 1.5 & 2kgs that he could definitely handle

@Bugbabe1970 I don’t really understand how you can have rules and boundaries without punishments? So one of the rules is ‘don’t hurt others’ he hits someone - what do you do? Nothing? What’s the point in having rules if nothing happens if you break them?

Yes - so this is a common misconception. Boundaries can absolutely be upheld without punishment. The thing is if he's hitting someone, you're not standing there merrily letting him hit saying "Okay, you've lost 5 minutes screen time.... Now ten.... Now fifteen" as he's hitting his sibling multiple times are you? Your immediate reaction would be to stop the hitting by restricting his arms, moving him somewhere else or moving the sibling to a place of safety or placing yourself in between them for example.

That's the boundary. You've held it. The punishment you add on afterwards is something that you do to (in theory) help reinforce the message that hitting is not tolerated and if he does it then it will have a negative consequence for him, with the aim being that this will reduce his motivation to hit and reduce or stop the hitting.

But if that doesn't work, or you just don't want to use punishment for whatever reason what do you do instead? Remember your aim is to reduce or stop the hitting. A punishment aims to do this by making it less rewarding for him. That assumes a lot of things. It assumes that the hitting is rewarding for him in the first place (maybe it is - sometimes your sibling is really annoying and hurting them seems like a reasonable goal when you're six. Maybe it makes them go away and stop touching your stuff.) It assumes that he already knows why he shouldn't hit, understand the effect on the other person. It assumes that he knows and is capable of using alternative ways to express his annoyance, get sibling to stop doing something, whatever it is.

So you could address any of these points instead of trying to adjust the motivation. Education can also help adjust the motivation btw by making an approach seem less appealing - I know that hitting my children would probably make them stop doing annoying things but I know it's not an approach I want to use for other reasons, so I don't. Albeit this might be a bit tough for a 6yo to grasp.

Or you could work on problem solving alternatives.

Or you could look into the triggers -what's happening immediately before the hitting, can you see a pattern with any markers you can step in earlier? Can you help avoid any of the situations? Is there something we can put in place? Do we have to think like having a 3yo and newborn and just never leave them alone together? Is that practical? What is practical?

When you change the goal from how to punish this behaviour to how to reduce or stop this behaviour, it really helps open up options and see things in a clearer way.

It would be exhausting to do this for every single issue you're having at any time so the CPS model recommends focusing on the top three most disruptive or biggest problems. For everything else, hold the boundary, reiterate the boundary (I'm not going to let you hit her) but don't worry about the other steps for addressing it until you've moved on to addressing that specific problem.

Hi just thought I’d help with information that has helped me adhd can be increasingly hard at times. I grew up with adhd I’m now 28 some symptoms have gone completely others are still there and managed but honestly find something they can hyper focus on. Be loving and understanding because sometimes they don’t understand themselves and cannot control emotions as they are so intense. This is coming from someone who has been In your child’s position in my teens. Show love and understanding and when they are older they will show you how much they appreciate that approach.

My son although not diagnosed ADHD has two ADHD friends, has many traits and I also teach teenage ADHD boys.

the things that have helped me calm my son and what I’ve picked up from SEND training.

exercise - if my son isn’t exercised he will climb the walls and become aggressive. So we go on lots of walks.

martial arts - this has given him focus to control his urges to fight his sisters and he enjoys fighting so he can get his release there.

screen time - behaviour always spirals if he spends too long playing games. He just becomes addicted and full of rage if he is losing. So limited screen time helped massively. He and I spend a lot of time gardening and he is getting very good at it now and it’s giving him something to be proud of. The others have no interest in helping so it’s a nice peaceful activity.

if I sense he is about to lose it I remove him from the room. Not as a punishment. This is how teenage ADHD pupils manage themselves they have exit passes and can spend 5 minutes outside my classroom door to recentre with no consequences.

supermarkets and stimulating environments- too much bright light, noise and people and he can’t cope. He’s older than your boy and can verbalise this better now, or perhaps he knows I will listen more now that he opens up. If he’s off climbing the shelves of the supermarket I offer to hold his hand and help him through it. If I shout at him and I used to a lot it just fed the dragon.

play dates- very limited he just freaks out if his siblings have guests around. We are working on boundaries. It’s very much a case of me going the extra mile in checking in on him every 20 mins or so and listening and trying to understand and soothe him. his friends we meet on neutral outdoor territory so they can spend hours climbing and running and then we go home and relax. If I didn’t my home would be wrecked.

I also let him know I love him all the time. He used to get lots of negative attention but now the positivity approach is paying off. He used to hate himself for the pain he caused others and so his self esteem is much better.

These are all really helpful to me for thinking about my undiagnosed 5 year old boy. We are trying to move house for a garden which I hope will help.

In terms of rules, one helpful thing I do is to frame it as rights. We all have a right to be happy and safe at home is my mantra. It is appropriate for all ages and is positive, so states what we’re aiming for. It opens the discussion for why x,y or z behaviour isn’t going to be tolerated. And doesn’t demand a punishment. It might work in your house or not, but it’s helped me.