Crap sleep, clingy 8 year old

[NicolaandLawrie]

Hi,

I’ve lost it a bit this eve with my 8 year old who has been a crap sleeper most of her life, it’s got better from time to time but then we regress again - and tonight I felt like I’d totally had enough. I have to lie next to her to get her to sleep - this can take a while (we have a real book then an audio book), and then creep out. Most nights she wakes up either when I try to leave or a little while after. My husband won’t do - it has to be me she has. I never get an evening as I’m always fighting her to sleep. We both kind of hate bedtime now and have started to argue more with each other during the day. Both of us end up blaming ourselves and I say I’m a terrible mother, she says she’s a terrible daughter - then I have to try and pull the situation back and calm us both down.

I don’t know what to do. She was breastfed for over 2 years - the HV at the time told me to stop at 12 months as I was making life difficult and that I’d regret being so foolish. I was really upset about that but now I wonder whether she was right and I was wrong. The pandemic didn’t help - she missed her friends loads and often we would be up with her 1-5am while she was crying for them.

Is it “normal” to still be lying next to your child to get them to sleep at this age? If it’s not, have I left it too late to fix this? She won’t be put to bed by anyone else and literally starts shaking if it’s suggested. She loves her Gran very much but won’t entertain the idea of staying overnight with her (she lives 5 mins’ walk from us).

When we’re not fighting with sleep she’s pretty happy during the day, likes school, has a good set of friends. But bedtime is slowly destroying me.

I’m not sure if anyone can help. Probably not but I just wanted to offload… thanks if anyone made it to the end of my rant..

Please don’t blame yourself; you never intended this to happen. But to answer your question: No, it’s not normal. A lot of 8 year olds are starting to go on sleepovers either round friends, cousins, grandparents or with Brownies etc… And most parents can leave their 8 year old with a babysitter while they go on a date night or a work function.
Why do you “have to” lie next to her to get her to sleep? You’re the parent, so surely you can do (within reason!) anything you want, and if she doesn’t like it, tough. So what if she bawls her head off or screams herself puce? you might suffer a few bad days afterwards, but eventually she’ll realise that it’s unsustainable. Just stick to your guns (if you cave, it will make matters even worse and confusing for her) and let her know that it doesn’t mean you love her any less.

My son is like this and I absolutely hate bedtime now - he’s 9

He statistic and has separation anxiety which means that I literally ever get any space even with covid he’s still crawling all over me trying to stay next to me - it’s totally suffocating

Anyway WHY can’t she sleep - do you know why? Is is separation anxiety. Is she . Scared of the dark? . At her age she should be Anne to read a book herself and drift off really. We have a runtime of hot shower, banana, melatonin and then I tuck him up and leave him to it

For years I had to lie beside him and have gradually weaned him off that.

The banana has really helped - probably as much as the melatonin

Sorry am blond

He’s autistic not statistic although being in love with maths, he would probably love to be called that 😂

I’m not an expert but your daughter is obviously suffering acute anxiety at night time and ‘abandoning’ her might cause more problems than it solves. On a positive side it’s great that she goes to school and seems happy in other areas of her life. Looking at it from her point of view she seems terrified of falling asleep without you which must be very frightening for her. I would try to get help although I’m sorry I cannot advise how to do this other than asking a medical professional or going privately to seek counselling. You clearly have a lovely little girl who is generally doing very well. I would see this as a mental health problem and remain supportive of her in order to maintain her well-being and stability. You sound like a great mum btw!

Why do you “have to” lie next to her to get her to sleep? You’re the parent, so surely you can do (within reason!) anything you want, and if she doesn’t like it, tough. So what if she bawls her head off or screams herself puce?
Disagree with this as it sounds as though daughter's emotional state is already fragile enough in certain areas - come on, cruel to be kind isn't the way here!

OP, it's no good beating yourself up over breastfeeding and covid as you can't alter the past.

I wonder whether you would be able to gradually withdraw without upsetting her. Start on a chair beside her bed and then move it a little bit nearer the door each night until you're in the doorway, read a back-lit Kindle so she knows you're not connecting with her. Explain in advance that this can't go on because she's missing out on so many fun things and that you're going to help her be independent at night. What would happen if she had a friend/young relative over to stay in her room on a blow-up bed? Are you able to talk options through with her or would it panic her? As to waking in the night, my GS's GP suggested liquid phenergan twice a week to break the habit and it worked for him. Good luck.

My S used be dreadful at getting to sleep. It would be 1 o'clock and we'd still be trying to get him to sleep.
I suddenly saw it differently.
We made too much of getting to sleep.
Flip your thought process. It doesn't matter if she doesn't sleep. What's the worst that can happen. She's tired the next day.
Take the pressure off. I stopped our bed rime routine and the cycle of dispare that happened after.
I let him read and play with toys in bed. Instead of lying with him I popped in every 10 mins to say I'm around. It instantly became calmer. At 10.00 I'd sleep with him. We'd talk and when he got anxious I'd say why. It's only sleep. You'll feel a bit tired that's all. Inside I was in dispare as I also would exhausted but it was easier as the stress had been removed. It took a couple of weeks and he started to relax and not worry about sleeping and started to be able to go to sleep by himself. He is a worrier and still is , he's in his 20s now so was a very similar situation to your D.
Please switch your thought about sleep: in my case it worked.

That's great advice @Cannedlaughter. My DSD (10) has developed anxiety around sleeping, having been a great sleeper and out like a light until a few months ago. We'll definitely try your approach

Tend to agree with Canned - does your DD have to go up to bed at a set time... of course I know it's ideal if your DC is tucked up in bed by 7.30/8pm but maybe try a couple of nights when you don't have a tour time and see what happens? But don't make it too 'exciting' to stay up ... no tv, screens etc .. maybe you and DH just need to do some boring chores or similar for a few nights so that she can see that 'staying up late' doesn't necessarily mean having fun?

The breast feeding has nothing to do with this. Ignore the comments made to you.
This seems to be a really key age for anxiety. I think the sense that they're growing up and their world is changing hits some kids very hard. Is she anxious in any other ways?
My DD wasn't this clingy but bedtimes have always been a bit protracted! She likes me to chat with her for quite a long time before she settles (even now she's a teenager!)
I think you need to have a gentle, predictable routine, good sleep hygiene but also talk about this - but not at bedtime.
My DD commented fairly recently that she found the sensation of dropping off to sleep frightening and would fight it. We've also found that a weighted blanket helps her fall asleep faster.
Anxiety is at the bottom of this and that's the nut you have to find and crack..

At exactly this age my DD developed a fear of death and, talking to other parents, the same was happening with theirs. Up till then death is something in stories then the full facts begin to hit home.
Sorry but I would not go cold turkey on this, even though it is a pain for you.
I may have misunderstood but it sounds as if you are saying inappropriate things about being a terrible mother etc. This will not help. She needs you to be the calm adult in this situation ... to allay her anxiety by being in control.

OP she is old enough to vocalise what is bothering her - that does she say?

Agree with PP that you need to present as the calm parent here

It’s really hard having an anxious child - for us a routine and calm in the house no screens no telly... exercise (for us a dog walk)....bath.. banana (works here too)... book is basically the way we go. I also moved bedtime back twenty minutes so there was less time lying in bed fretting. Seems to have helped.

Ignore the poster that thinks leaving a child to it is the answer - clearly not had an anxious child !

My ds became more clingy at this age because he worried about death and seemed to go through a stage of anxiety. I think sometimes you need to offer the support they need and gradually try to build up to where you can leave your dd to go to sleep alone. I wouldn't abandon your dd though like other posters suggested.

My son is like this, same age too - I’m lying with him now. He’s autistic though. To answer your question, no I wouldn’t say it’s normal for a neuro typical child. None of my others have done it.

I will say I don’t think you telling her you’re a terrible mother is going to be helping. It all sounds like it gets heightened in drama with you saying you’re a bad mum and her saying she’s a bad daughter etc.

I would try and gently separate from this lying in bed with her. Maybe initially telling her you will stay in the room as long as she is trying to get to sleep but will be reading quietly in the chair rather than in bed with her. Then after that move to reading then popping out and back in type of thing.

Also this isn’t always a popular opinion but I think at 8 a child is old enough to hear certain things. My son is autistic but he knows that at bedtime he lies and listens to an audiobook and relaxes even if he can’t sleep. I’m honest with him and have explained ‘mum is busy all day and evening time she needs time to do jobs downstairs and read a book or relax. If I don’t get time to do any jobs or relax then I feel very very tired and it makes me sad. You need to spend your time quietly relaxing at bedtime so I can do what I need to do. I will check on you at x time.’ That allows me to feel rested enough to cope with the night time wakings.