Bottle Feeding - at my wits end!!

[sjxoxo]

Baby boy is 11 weeks & combi fed both boob & bottle. I’d love to breastfeed only but I don’t think I have enough supply (a whole other thread). So he has some bottles too.

Almost every bottle feed is a struggle with him whining, writhing, kicking, spitting milk, crying, gurgling. He sometimes starts well and then point blank refuses the last third of the bottle.

We have tried slowing down the feeds, different milks, different positions, with no change.

My gut instinct from his behaviour is that it’s wind… rumbling tummy / trapped wind. I wind him regularly through the feed but still this writhing around, spitting, flooding and flailing persists. I have tried several bottles and teats (all slowest flow). Bottles I have tried are Avent, Elhee, Mam. All claim to be anti colic blah blah - all crap.

If you had a gassy baby what did you do & did anything work for you.. any bottle and teat combinations that actually really make a difference in air intake??? I am at my wits end and dread the bottle feeding because it seems like torture for both of us. It means he doesn’t finish the feed so we have lots of small feeds throughout the day which also means he struggles to sleep long stretches!
Zero of this when he is on the boob.

Please help!? Xo

It maybe nipple/teat confusion or just a breast feeding preference. Have you tried NUK or MAM bottles and the cheap old fashioned bottles?

Would you consider increasing your supply and moving towards more breastfeeding?

Is he maybe just done after the first 2/3 of a bottle, if he's used to breastfeeding and finishing when he wants? Maybe too simplistic, but bf babies (and most tiny babies) are used to little and often feeding.

Could be reflux? My baby is 3 weeks old and bottle fed (would have loved to breastfeed but tongue tie and bad blood loss in labour put an end to that) and he was/is exactly the same at feeding times. Back arching, crying, sicking up lots of milk. Turned out to be reflux exacerbated by taking in lots of air (partly due to tongue tie). Like you we tried different bottles, teat sizes etc but the only thing that has made it easier is gaviscon. It helps thicken the milk, keeping it in his stomach. That and holding him upright 30 mins after a feed and burping as best we can (when he isn’t wriggling everywhere!) is helping.
We also do paced feeding. So sitting him as upright as possible, holding the bottle horizontal but tilted just enough the teat is filled with milk minimising the air he’s taking in. We also take regular breaks every ounce or so to try and wind.
I’m hoping to try anti-reflux milk over the gaviscon soon as it will mean less faffing with sachets but it essentially does the same thing.
I would also maybe try a size 1 teat. I thought a extra slow teat would help things but found he was having to suck extra hard to get the milk and therefore taking in more air. It’s very difficult trying to figure out what to do to help as there’s so many variables and I totally understand the dread thing. It’s the only thing we have issues with and it’s torture watching him be in pain but the gaviscon is helping.

Perhaps you are expecting to drink too much? Some babies prefer little and often.

@Duracellbunnywannabe thanks for your reply! Yes I would and I am really trying to increase my supply but I don’t think I have enough milk for him to be 100% bf. I did r bf for the first month but he wasn’t gaining enough weight & the clinic advised me to add some bottles.. I struggled a bit with the choice but I resigned myself to the fact at the end of the day I didn’t want him to be hungry. He has since picked up normal weight gain and no problems other than this fussiness during bottles! I am pumping regularly to try and increase supply and he’s prob 40/60 bf to bottles. X

@Galvantula I did wonder.. thing that makes me sceptical to accept this is that he is a big baby. Not huge huge but above average and was predicted very big; and I feel like he has a good appetite- they are telling me at our weigh in clinic that by 4 month (so 5 weeks time) he should be on 4 big bottles/feeds a day. Currently he’s still on 6/7 and yesterday was 9! It’s like he snacks rather than takes a full feed. X

@Pizzaandsushi

Could be reflux? My baby is 3 weeks old and bottle fed (would have loved to breastfeed but tongue tie and bad blood loss in labour put an end to that) and he was/is exactly the same at feeding times. Back arching, crying, sicking up lots of milk. Turned out to be reflux exacerbated by taking in lots of air (partly due to tongue tie). Like you we tried different bottles, teat sizes etc but the only thing that has made it easier is gaviscon. It helps thicken the milk, keeping it in his stomach. That and holding him upright 30 mins after a feed and burping as best we can (when he isn’t wriggling everywhere!) is helping. We also do paced feeding. So sitting him as upright as possible, holding the bottle horizontal but tilted just enough the teat is filled with milk minimising the air he’s taking in. We also take regular breaks every ounce or so to try and wind. I’m hoping to try anti-reflux milk over the gaviscon soon as it will mean less faffing with sachets but it essentially does the same thing. I would also maybe try a size 1 teat. I thought a extra slow teat would help things but found he was having to suck extra hard to get the milk and therefore taking in more air. It’s very difficult trying to figure out what to do to help as there’s so many variables and I totally understand the dread thing. It’s the only thing we have issues with and it’s torture watching him be in pain but the gaviscon is helping.

@Pizzaandsushi oh thanks this sounds like something to try- the bigger teats! I will give that a go. It’s so hard isn’t it- I feel he’s in such discomfort and just want to help him! He did have reflux when he was smaller- we gave him a thicker milk for a couple of weeks and it seemed to resolve after that as he grew a bit so went back to the normal milk. At that time I did ask my GP for reflux treatment but they wouldn’t give it- said it’s not recommended here - I am in France - did you get a prescription or just bought it?? If it’s something I can get here I will try that too. I’ve read about Dr Browns bottles but not bought any- have you any experience of these? They seem to be talked about a lot for colicky babies! X

@RandomMess yes also possible.. I don’t mind the little and often but he seems so distressed, occasionally from the start, occasionally from half way through so it’s really hard to know! Sometimes it will happen when he’s not fed for several hours so I know he must be at least peckish if not very hungry! X

He may prefer breastfeeding due to the flow etc.

Is he happy when he breastfeeds?

You can't compare what a bottle fed baby "should" do to one that isn't fully bottle fed.

Some babies are born big and then "catch down"

I had 3 very large babies all 95th+ plus centile, they were all on different centiles at 5 months only, one only 25th despite always being long/tall she was a slim baby.

@RandomMess I think he is happy on the boob yes. None of the same flailing around or fussing. He pops on and off and sometimes messes around a bit but it’s rarely in an ‘upset’ way. On the bottle it’s the same almost every feed. x

Honestly I would put your feet up for a week get a pile of snacks and fluids and offer him only the breast every feed. Your body will start producing much more that way then it ever will pumping.

Seriously one was 10lb 6oz stayed huge and I could only express 20ml. Switched to formula at 4 months and she used to guzzle 9oz bottles in seconds - sight to behold

Ah I see. Yes we do get ours on prescription but our gp also mentioned Carobel which is a thickener you can buy that does the same thing and I’m pretty sure it’s similar to what’s already added to anti-reflux milk.
I have tried Dr Brown’s but didn’t have much success as I think the teat really confused him and he couldn’t suck from it properly. Again pretty sure this is because of a tongue tie issue so maybe in a similar way as previous posters have said your baby is getting confused between nipple and teat, which is causing excess air intake with the bottle.
We now just use Mam bottles. They don’t really solve the problems of air intake and reflux but I know it’s more the tongue tie and thickness of milk that’s causing our issues rather than any particular bottle brand.
Also I know they’re professionals but take what they say about milk intake per feed with a pinch of salt. My boy was above average weight. Not massive but the gp kept saying he should be on 4 oz per feed at 2 weeks because of his weight but I knew there was no way my baby could do that. I don’t think any 2 week old could!! So I listen to what the children’s doctor at Alder Hey hospital told us when she prescribed gaviscon which was little and often and he shouldn’t be having any more than 2 oz every 2 hours and in time stretch that to 3 which is much more in line with his age rather than weight. It’s a pain doing more feeds but as long as they’re hitting the average over a 24 hour period that’s what matters, not trying to get huge feeds in.

Bm is normally thinner than fm so I would be surprised if you have reflux issues just with fm. Bm taste much sweeter. I would start working towards more breastfeeding, start my dropping a bottle at a time and offer your breast. You may need to feed more frequently but your baby will let you know. Drink lots of water and have some snack. Find something good on TV, the new Bridgeton series is out.

He clearly doesn’t want the bottle. I would stick him on the boob as much as he wants. Monitor wet and dirty nappies. If you want to mix feed then perhaps you or partner could give him a bottle before bedtime. France is very pro formula feeding so I would wager you’ve had little breastfeeding support. Babies stomachs are small.

Fellow combi feeder of a very big baby with an appetite to match 🙋‍♀️ I combi fed for 4 months, and then very gradually switched to just boob as we were more like 70/30 BF/FF. I used every bottle under the sun, as my boy was exactly as you describe, bottle feeding was so annoying! Nothing helped until we finally settled on Lansinoh bottles. He was so much happier with those. I really recommend them for switching between breast and bottle.

Does your son feed much throughout the night? When the 4 month regression hit us, mine was feeding so much through the night that he went up a percentile. I think I have a very average capacity, so a fair few night feedings are essential for us to continue breastfeeding long term.

Look into 'the magic number' in relation to breastfeeding. It helped me understand my own milk production capability and how that can effect the feeding behaviour of my baby.

@Pizzaandsushi yes we have the mam bottles too. @DonnyBurrito mentions lanisoh bottles have helped them so maybe worth a try! Thanks @DonnyBurrito I’ll have a look at those. We’ve been blessed with a good sleeper - he feeds maybe once in the night, sometimes will go 6-7 hours with no waking so night feeds aren’t an issue and I put him on the boob at night and in the morning.

@DingleyDel yes France is quite pro formula but I have had some half decent support- my GP and also my MIL who is a midwife both have been helpful- the initial issue was slow weight gain around weeks 3-5 and I am a FTM, essentially what happened was they said he might need more than you are able to give - ie maybe he’s not getting enough milk on the breast- I was using nipple shields which were given out like cupcakes in the maternity- I’ve since learnt these restrict flow and can affect supply as they go beyond 1 month old- I also had terrible nipple thrush which was agony. I panicked and took their advice as it made me think maybe he was crying in the evenings as he was hungry.. I felt guilty that maybe he had been hungry and to be honest it’s haunted me ever since so I am a bit obsessed now about making sure he’s eating enough.. problem with the boob is you can’t tell the quantity. When I pump I’m getting typically 60-100 mls each time total amount which seems not much to me given the recommendation is 750-1L per 24hrs. He will sleep 5/6/7 hours at night and his last feed is boob only, so is his first feed of the day. Then in the day he will have mostly bottles mix of breast milk and formula. There’s a midwife I’m going to see aswell this week who has been recommended.
Thanks all for your help and advice- I will try putting him to boob more and more and also the lanisoh bottle recommendation!

Xo

Babies extract far more in a feed then you will be expressing.

Have some confidence to ditch the bottles. He may seem hungry and want to feed very frequently for 3/4 days whilst your supply builds up due to lack of formula but it will happen. Very very few mums don't produce "enough".

Have you looked at the Kellymom website? Amazing advice etc on there.

My daughter never finishes a bottle.She cluster feeds and has done so since birth.Tried many other things but in the end it isn't harming her just really inconveniencing me

I’d definitely try a faster teat. I used Mam bottles and at 11 weeks I was using the size 2s which according to the guide are for 8 weeks +. Are you still using size 0? If yes then there’s definitely a chance he’s getting frustrated because he’s having to work so hard to get any milk and taking in more air through all the extra sucking. I never even used size 0s, I thought they were only recommended for prem or tiny babies.

Also only 4 feeds a day by 4 months doesn’t sound realistic so I’d stop listening to the weigh clinic. My babies had a dream feed, in order to sleep through the night, until they started weaning so that made 5 feeds. If I’d pushed for 4 feeds too early then they would have woken in the early hours so it would have been completely counterproductive.

he is a big baby. Not huge huge but above average and was predicted very big; and I feel like he has a good appetite- they are telling me at our weigh in clinic that by 4 month (so 5 weeks time) he should be on 4 big bottles/feeds a day.

I don't know about this, I have a big 5 month old (99th percentile in both weight and height) and he would never manage on 4 feeds a day, no matter how big they were.

Do you offer your breast first each time and then top up with formula after? I think I be inclined to accept that if he's drinking the first two thirds of the bottle then he just doesn't want the rest.

I honestly think he's trying to tell you he prefers being breastfed!

Maybe breastfeed first and offer a bottle top up if you think he's still hungry?
I'm by no means a breastfeeding bossyboots and I think it's sad how the most casual comment can make someone feel they're not producing enough milk. Please try and believe in yourself and your ability to produce enough milk to feed him and see how it goes xx

I breast fed three all big birth weights all Fed differently and I think said earlier all ended up on different centiles and still are as adults!

Thanks all for your replies- it definitely knocked my confidence when it all went on yes. Yesterday and today I’ve put him on the boob much more & he seems fine- I thought he was ‘hangry’ last night though in the evening and gave bottle as he was fussing on the boob and I thought maybe wasn’t much there. Today seems better though yes had boob and gone down for several solid naps which i take as a good sign! I do offer boob first yes and then bottle (formula or pumped milk) if he’s not settling.

Yes we are using 0 teats and I’ve ordered some bigger ones- I’m still on 0 as I did try 1 before but it totally flooded him and they told me at the clinic to stick with small size if breast feeding as otherwise he’ll be flooded… I’m going to try 1’s again after this as he’s grown a lot since we last tried.

I am going to keep putting him on the boob every time and working towards more milk from me.. it’s so hard as I’m so scared of him being hungry!

Thanks everyone xxx

He won't go hungry, he will let you know.

Perhaps just ditch the formula first which means you will have to feed himself more to you your supply, then ditch the pumped milk after a week.

Lots of food, fluids, rest and encouraging much more frequent feeding will boost your supply quickly.

Ditch getting him weighed!!

If he gets fussy you can take him off distract for 10 minutes then try offering the Brest again which will encourage another let down.

Remember breast milk changes during a feed and as they get older. The hind milk is super nutritious and you may never get to that when pumping.

You are doing amazing mixed feeding is time consuming and harder work than breast feeding alone!