Is this normal for a childminder?

[slurpee]

I went to the playground with my DC (18m) and there was a childminder there with two assistants looking after 7 or 8 small children, I didn't count how many exactly. I know they are assistants as I know of them locally.

One of the small toddlers was crying and unhappy and one of the assistants said to her 'you're fine'. I went off after my DC and we were playing for a few minutes, she was still upset and walked off a way away and sat on the ground, crying. This went on for about 15/20 min, the childminders ignored her. Eventually she came back over and seemed ok.

Where I was playing with my DC I noticed that one of the older kids (maybe 4/5) had wet themselves and kept holding themselves like they needed to wee. This wasn't noticed by the childminders until they were leaving a half hour later, and I heard them say "X looks like he needs a wee! Oh he's gone already!' And then started discussing amongst themselves how annoying that this child keeps doing this.

I'm asking because I will soon be sending my DC to a local childminder, is this normal?? It's my first child, PFB etc, am I overthinking or being judgemental when I think this isn't how you treat kids.

Not from what I’ve seen. I’m a SAHM and I’ve seen lots of childminders out and about.

I wouldn't be impressed with that. I've both used a childminder for my eldest, and been one myself.
I would prefer a smaller setting though, just one childminder, 2 or 3 pre schoolers, that kind of ratio.

Is it normal that a child can wet themselves and the parent or carer doesn't notice straight away in a busy park? Yes.

Is it normal for toddlers to have strops/tantrums and the parent/carer to choose to ignore? Yes, very common and often promoted on Mumsnet as the best way to deal with tantrums.

No that's not normal, it's horrible.

The childminders I know take sole responsibility for the DC in their care and I have not seen them acting negligently. This doesn't sound typical at all.

@thebabynanny

Is it normal that a child can wet themselves and the parent or carer doesn't notice straight away in a busy park? Yes.

Is it normal for toddlers to have strops/tantrums and the parent/carer to choose to ignore? Yes, very common and often promoted on Mumsnet as the best way to deal with tantrums.

Bollocks is this normal. The op noticed the little boy was desperate for the toilet, so why didn’t the people who were paid to look after them? And they didn’t even notice until half an hour after he’d pissed himself. And then belittling and shaming him because it keeps happening? And I missed the part where the op said that the toddler was having a tantrum. She said she was left crying and upset for an extended period of time.

I genuinely am unsure if this is totally normal, I have very little experience with children and none with childcare settings.

@thebabynanny yes, I see what you're saying. The park wasn't busy at all, just them and us. Also it was a very young, non verbal toddler the same age as mine, and I can't imagine ignoring my DC for so long. But maybe people do and it's ok, I have little experience of this.

I think with child minders, you often only really notice the bad ones chatting to their mates and ignoring the kids. The good ones you probably just look past as they are acting like any other parent or grandparent taking good care of their kids.

Yes it can be very normal with large childminder settings. It’s why parents and childcare workers often prefer to use / work for a nursery

I might leave toddler to have a little strop or sulk if they were prone to it, and in a safe place etc.
Not really crying and upset though.
And wetting themselves... if you know one hasn't quite got the hang of it you're on hyper alert for the signals and absolutely loaded up with spare clothes.

The child wetting themselves because the staff didn't notice them holding themselves etc is really awful.
I'd wonder if the child was worried to let them know they needed a wee if their annoyance was evident. Poor kid.

Yes, not nice of them to discuss the child who's wet himself.

I'd have pointed it out to them if I'd noticed he had and they hadn't though?

Neither of those things seem horrendous though. Spend some time in a softplay and you'll see lots of people ignore crying toddlers or miss children having wee accidents.

I am a childminder and am part of a network of around 12 that I see regularly. That is not normal in any of our settings. I might not be able to carry a child around the park if I'm helping the other children (bit I work alone not with an assistant) but I would pop them in a buggy with a snack or comforter for example.

@NotNowBoris

I think with child minders, you often only really notice the bad ones chatting to their mates and ignoring the kids. The good ones you probably just look past as they are acting like any other parent or grandparent taking good care of their kids.

This.

Depending in the day of the week you see my CM you wouldn't realise that the children with her aren't related to her and each other.

I only know because of the comments my DP and I have overheard.

Well I consider myself a good and loving parent and have definitely not noticed wee accidents at the park until it’s too late. I never shamed my kids for this but it did get annoying if they repeatedly refused to go then wet themselves when out. I have also had two toddlers who needed to be completely ignored while tantrumming as they continued to ramp up following any interaction.

A lot of judgement here based on very little.

No, I don’t think that’s normal and I’d be very unhappy if my children had been treated that way by a childminder or at nursery.

I've seen some 'reccomended' childminders at soft play and at the park.

At soft play they were having a catch up at a table while all their babies (none walking) were in the play area. Fine but there were other adults and babies in there with little ones and no one was keeping an eye on the cm's babies (safeguarding perspective). Yes babies need to play/ explore and cm's need drinks and to relax a bit but they were not even by the baby area. I could have walked off with a baby unnoticed.

At the park (older kids 2/3 to about 6) the older ones were being told to watch the little ones- they didn't and the cm's were stood in a corner chatting. Kids all over the place falling, getting stuck, 2 sneaked away and hid in the car park area (through 2 gates).

I looked into cm's for dc so I recognised they were recommended and really lovely ladies. However for me in public settings there isn't always the same quality of care.

In hindsight, I should have mentioned something about the child who'd wet themselves but at the time I was running after my DC at the other end of the park.

It's not the fact that they missed him having a wee, it's that they were sitting some distance away chatting and paying no attention. I can understand just not getting to it in time or missing it, but not noticing for half an hour?

With the toddler it was the length of time they were sitting by themselves upset, with no one paying attention. It wasn't a tantrum.

I'm afraid of I'd noticed a very young toddler, by themselves and upset I'd have gone over and helped them. Did you jist dispassionately watch all this OP? You say it went on a very long time? There's responsibility on all of to help the young and vulnerable around us and it sounds like you could have intervened for both of these small children and did nothing.

I have no idea if this is normal as I don’t use any paid for childcare but I really hope it’s not. Those poor children.

@CarbonelCat

I'm afraid of I'd noticed a very young toddler, by themselves and upset I'd have gone over and helped them. Did you jist dispassionately watch all this OP? You say it went on a very long time? There's responsibility on all of to help the young and vulnerable around us and it sounds like you could have intervened for both of these small children and did nothing.

I felt it wasn't my place to intervene because at the time I was unsure of my own judgement.

It's been playing on my mind which is why I posted for an outside perspective.

A young toddler crying for half an hour unattended to? In a park with no one else there?

I would be unable to dispassionately observe a child in such distress and take zero action at all.

I know a few cm locally and have used 2. Thos behaviour is not normal. I've seen cm out and about with kids and they are responsible and respond to them.

How on earth did you notice that a child had wet themselves from the other side of the park!?

Also, a 4 or 5 year old (most of which would be in school) should be able to say when they need the toilet and control it. As you overheard them (from the other side of the park?) discussing how they keep doing it this sounds like a problem rather than normal child behaviour.