Can't stop losing temper with DD and hate myself for it :(

[Mummyof287]

I get so very angry with her....sometimes she just pushes and pushes my buttons til i snap.I try to ask her calmly first, then more firmly, but she doesn't seem to respond alot of the time, just whines, whinges and argues, constantly saying 'no because' this that or the other and challenging me, then I end up either raising my voice or sometimes losing my temper- shouting or 'seething' at her with the whole pointy finger thing.I am ashamed to say this but in those moments of rage I feel like i WANT to punish her and make her feel really bad, even though underneath I love her so much...its like I get possessed with anger.

I used to practice the gentle parenting and felt i was a caring (albeit anxious) parent for the first couple of years, til she got harder and I lost patience and tolerance with it all, but now feel like I've gone too much the other way.

We have many happy, loving times- we are very affectionate with each other, have lots of positive conversations etc, and I praise her often and always recognise her positive behaviour, personality traits and achievements. But it also feels like we are continually shouting at her, nagging at her and ending up (especially me) losing our temper.

I'm on maternity leave with baby atm, and I fear things will only get worse when I go back to work and have to be out the door and dropping her and baby off to go to work with even more pressure time wise.

Sometimes she does listen and do what are has been told well, such as this morning she got dressed really fast, BUT there always has to be a bribe (do X then you have Y) or a threat (if you don't do X then you won't be able to have Y) involved,which can become very tiresome.

This morning we were just about to go to school.I was asking her in a normal calm way to quickly get her coat and hat on, and we were about to go out the door, but she decided to run upstairs to 'get a bracelet' then after me asking nicely progressing to more firmly several times she still continued going up there, wouldn't come down, and wouldn't take no for an answer about not being allowed to wear the bracelet at school.By the time she finally did come down and i got the bracelet off her (with her still protesting) it was too late to walk to school, so i had to mess about getting everything in the car, putting her bike away etc which really annoyed me.

I then pushed her out of the front door rather abruptly, and whilst i didn't hurt her, this understandably shocked and upset her because she knew I was doing it in anger, which I feel horrible about :( So she was crying and shouting at me saying i shouldn't push because its not nice (which of course is right and what we would tell her) Then i was seething at her in the car, telling her to 'get into her seat NOW' which upset her even more, and she looked at me in like she was scared as I was so angry.

I also feel awful that often when I'm shouting at her I'm trying to get the baby's coat on/put her in the car seat or pram etc, and I worry that the baby may think I'm shouting at her instead (which I'd never do, but I do feel bad that DD must see this and think she is 'bad' and baby is 'good')

I've read up on how to try manage the anger- breathing, walking away etc, but its like i see red when I'm angry, and doing those things doesn't even cross my mind at the time, as i lose the ability to be rational.
We would never smack her (me & dh were smacked as children and know how crap it made us feel, so swore we wouldn't ever do it to our children) but i know that how we are being is still damaging to her in a different way.

I feel like I need some sort of anger management or something to stop losing my temper and getting triggered by DD's behaviour so much. I know how I'm being with her isn't right, as she is just an innocent little girl who shouldn't have to feel scared of me and needs a consistent parent not a hot and cold one :(
I always apologise to her after i get cross, but I know that doesn't condone me doing it in the first place, and probably doesn't mean alot to her when she knows I will do it again.

I have tried to instill in her to be more confident and less compliant than I was, but it seems in doing so she feels she can challenge everything and not have to do as we ask her (she is apparently well behaved at school) and I know if I keep losing my temper and criticising her she will probably end up with crap self esteem, anxiety and low confidence anyway like I did :(

How do I stop getting so angry and be the consistent and calm parent i wish i could be?! Please help...😫

First of all well done for asking for help. It’s really brave and hard to do. You clearly love your daughter but are struggling badly right now, and you’re in the transition from one child to two, which is also a challenging time.

You don’t mention how old DD is, but in a way it doesn’t matter - nothing you describe is unusual behaviour on her part, it’s your reactions that are the issue. And even if her behaviour were at the challenging end, you’re the grownup and fixing this is on you. If you’ve reached the stage where you’re shoving her in anger, it’s already gone too far. We all get angry, especially when short of sleep with a new baby, but as you seem to recognise that’s extreme and simply not ok.

You seem to have a fair bit of insight into your issues but not a lot of control of them. Please take the next step and get professional help from a counsellor who specialises in parenting support. You need someone who can help you turn this around, mumsnet can’t do that. Good luck

Summer born reception by any chance?
You can send them part time until the term after they turn 5. I wonder if she's maybe a bit overwhelmed with school and new baby.
Could you print some cards off that show morning routine? I.e, breakfast, teeth, getting dressed, coat, car.
It might help with morning routine which will take some of pressure off.
If you're on maternity leave re,ember you still have a baby and it isn't abnormal for hormones to be everywhere in first year. It will calm down.

The issue here is your model of parenting hasn't given you techniques to manage challenging behaviour WITHOUT getting angry. I'm similar even though for the most part my parents were great in early childhood - teenage years there was much more anger etc.
I read Philippa Perry's "The Book You Wish Your Parents Had Read" which really helped me understand that when I get wound up I'm responding to my own experiences and not my child, if that makes sense. I try and focus hard on how I'm feeling in the moment. EG "Wow this is really getting to me. She's really screaming and it makes me feel stressed" and that sort of grounds me.
In terms of strategies for dealing with the behaviour... there;s no quick fix. This is ongoing through childhood! Things go better for me when I manage to be playful, eg "oh NO it;s a DISASTER we are going to be LATE waaaah" etc or when we talk about how things could go better (in calm in between times) and model what should happen, etc. "How to Talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk" has good strategies too.
Disclaimer: all too often despite everything I also get infuriated and I have been there with the momentary rage making you feel resentful and angry towards them. Connection afterwards (apology, hug, explaining why you did it, eg because i get worried we will be late but instead of staying calm I burst out yelling "but it's not an excuse", etc) is vital and you are doing that. Plus this stage with a baby is the toughest...

It's really hard to keep your cool when you're stressed and in a hurry and they're wasting time and messing around .

What are the flashpoints? I'd focus on trying to get rid of those as far as possible to prevent conflict. So school stuff packed the night before, do teeth and get dressed as soon as she gets up and only then breakfast. If she wastes time, she'll miss some of her breakfast but that's not the end of the world.

For the shouting, I find it helps to give myself permission to shout/be cross after a certain number of times of asking nicely. So I'll ask nicely twice, then I'll ask a little more firmly two more times, then I put my exasperated tone on for the fifth time asking and then I get cross after that. Usually my DS will start listening on the second or third time asking so I don't have to get cross. I find this approach helps to alert him to the fact that he's going to get shouted at if he doesn't start doing what he's told and then he can choose to avoid it.

@tinymeteor

First of all well done for asking for help. It’s really brave and hard to do. You clearly love your daughter but are struggling badly right now, and you’re in the transition from one child to two, which is also a challenging time.

You don’t mention how old DD is, but in a way it doesn’t matter - nothing you describe is unusual behaviour on her part, it’s your reactions that are the issue. And even if her behaviour were at the challenging end, you’re the grownup and fixing this is on you. If you’ve reached the stage where you’re shoving her in anger, it’s already gone too far. We all get angry, especially when short of sleep with a new baby, but as you seem to recognise that’s extreme and simply not ok.

You seem to have a fair bit of insight into your issues but not a lot of control of them. Please take the next step and get professional help from a counsellor who specialises in parenting support. You need someone who can help you turn this around, mumsnet can’t do that. Good luck

Thanks so much for your helpful reply- she is 4 nearly 5.I realise my anger levels aren't normal, and as you rightfully say i have the insight but not the control which needs to change.I have tried to contact the doctors, they have arranged an appt but not til 10 days time (!) so have also left a message with the health visiting team for support, so hopefully they'll get back to me soon.To be honest I'm abit worried I might have PND.I did with DD (though more anxiety and intrusive thoughts) so I'm going to say about that.

@Cheeeseeeee773737

Summer born reception by any chance? You can send them part time until the term after they turn 5. I wonder if she's maybe a bit overwhelmed with school and new baby. Could you print some cards off that show morning routine? I.e, breakfast, teeth, getting dressed, coat, car. It might help with morning routine which will take some of pressure off. If you're on maternity leave re,ember you still have a baby and it isn't abnormal for hormones to be everywhere in first year. It will calm down.

Pretty much- she is 5 end of March.I think you're right in that new baby and school have been alot for her to cope with...I did anticipate that, especially bearing in mind our close relationship and her high need personality.I do have a 'first' and 'then' board for her with those sort of cards in her room, but do need to use it more with her.

@wtftodo

The issue here is your model of parenting hasn't given you techniques to manage challenging behaviour WITHOUT getting angry. I'm similar even though for the most part my parents were great in early childhood - teenage years there was much more anger etc. I read Philippa Perry's "The Book You Wish Your Parents Had Read" which really helped me understand that when I get wound up I'm responding to my own experiences and not my child, if that makes sense. I try and focus hard on how I'm feeling in the moment. EG "Wow this is really getting to me. She's really screaming and it makes me feel stressed" and that sort of grounds me. In terms of strategies for dealing with the behaviour... there;s no quick fix. This is ongoing through childhood! Things go better for me when I manage to be playful, eg "oh NO it;s a DISASTER we are going to be LATE waaaah" etc or when we talk about how things could go better (in calm in between times) and model what should happen, etc. "How to Talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk" has good strategies too. Disclaimer: all too often despite everything I also get infuriated and I have been there with the momentary rage making you feel resentful and angry towards them. Connection afterwards (apology, hug, explaining why you did it, eg because i get worried we will be late but instead of staying calm I burst out yelling "but it's not an excuse", etc) is vital and you are doing that. Plus this stage with a baby is the toughest...

Yes, you're so right about the fact that our model of parenting hasn't given us techniques to manage the challenging behaviour without resorting to anger.Thanks for that insight...I hadn't really thought of it like that before! My parents especially my mum gave me a very good childhood mostly, although like you my teens were tough- my dad was a difficult character at times.They did rage at me sometimes, and lose control and smack me but that was occasional, and it was never more than that.DH's experience was much worse...lots of MH problems in his mum which she was preoccupied by resulting in lack of attachment and stability, and emotionally uninvolved dad, and he got hit with a belt too. Thanks so much for the book recommendations, I will definitely look into those as I do like reading and they sound very helpful resources. Whilst I know its not OK, it's good to hear I'm not the only one struggling with all this, and thankyou for your helpful advice on ways to de-escalate and manage my emotions.

@ChocolateMassacre

It's really hard to keep your cool when you're stressed and in a hurry and they're wasting time and messing around .

What are the flashpoints? I'd focus on trying to get rid of those as far as possible to prevent conflict. So school stuff packed the night before, do teeth and get dressed as soon as she gets up and only then breakfast. If she wastes time, she'll miss some of her breakfast but that's not the end of the world.

For the shouting, I find it helps to give myself permission to shout/be cross after a certain number of times of asking nicely. So I'll ask nicely twice, then I'll ask a little more firmly two more times, then I put my exasperated tone on for the fifth time asking and then I get cross after that. Usually my DS will start listening on the second or third time asking so I don't have to get cross. I find this approach helps to alert him to the fact that he's going to get shouted at if he doesn't start doing what he's told and then he can choose to avoid it.

It really is! I'm trying so hard not to keep being late this term, as I was alot last term with juggling new baby and getting her ready, but it's really tough sometimes. To be honest it's mainly last minute unexpected issues like the bracelet thing (sometimes getting her ready can take awhile but she was actually fine at that today) I started getting her up by 7.30 latest not 8 so that we could have more leeway time wise, and also be able to walk not drive more.Im thinking maybe I should get her up even earlier, but the issue is she often doesn't go to sleep til between 9 and 10, so I try to give her as long a sleep as possible due to that. That last paragraph about giving her more chances and warning about me getting angry is helpful, thankyou.

It might help to try to get a routine in place where the same things happen in the same order everyday and you make sure everyone has plenty of time for each step - having to rush is bound to make you stressed. Perhaps you could do something like have a chart up on her wall with pictures of all the things she has to do and she can tick them off as she does them.

I would also say that something that can be really helpful to children is to give them a warning - breakfast is going to be ready in 5 minutes, we are going to be leaving in 5 minutes - this gives them a chance to physically and mentally finish what they are doing and prepare for the next thing.

I think you need to give yourself a bit of a break too, trying to organise a child going to school while you have a baby to contend with is stressful. I would really step back and pick your battles though. Let her find out some minor consequences for herself. Don't argue if she puts on a bracelet - explain to her why she shouldn't wear it and then let her get told off at school if that's what she chooses. Don't argue if she won't put on her coat - explain to her that she will get wet or won't be allowed out at playtime if she doesn't, but let her make her own decision. Obviously some things have to be done - wearing seat belt for example but if you let her make her own decisions when the consequences are minor she may be more willing to listen at other times as she won't feel like she needs to constantly battle to get some control.

With a new baby and a 4 year old I think you are being too hard on yourself.
She does need to do as she is told. She shouldn’t be going upstairs to get a bracelet just before leaving for school.
And it’s perfectly ok to get cross with your child if they are not doing as they are asked.

She may we also be feeling unsettled by the arrival of the new baby. Gentle parenting is all very well but at the end of the day your child needs to do as they are told - because more dangerous situations may occur where they need to be obedient.

As for some support by all means but I think you are being to hard on yourself. Maybe PND is a possibility- I had it after both my children’s birth. And it presented slightly differently each time.

I don't have any particularly helpful advice but just wanted to say that I think you sound like a wonderful mummy. You care about not being angry and are taking all these steps to develop new strategies and get help. I think you're being really hard on yourself, I have a strong willed 4 year old and a baby and it can be really hard. I hope you have support and get a break sometimes, maybe some more time off would help you to recharge and keep a bit calmer?

How to talk to little kids so they will listen (the book specifically for under-sevens) was a total game changer for me. Really made me understand that my daughter was just acting her age and I was expecting too much of her a lot.

A lot of the advice in it felt very cheesy and American but really worked eg trying to get her dressed while she ran off and did other things, I would say that her clothes wanted to wiggle onto her and shake them about while putting them on, which made her laugh and stand still - or trying to get her into the bathroom, I would now ask her if she wanted to jump or hop and she’ll choose one or the other (a marked improvement to “In the bathroom… now…!” through gritted teeth).

It also has the basic but important reminder that if your child is hungry or tired, none of the tips in the book will work!

Agree re flashpoints - I noticed that I get most wound up when my daughter is dragging her feet and we have something time sensitive to get to, so I’ve learned to leave more time rather than expect her to care about a schedule she knows nothing about!

Be kind to yourself - you clearly love your daughter and want to do better. I think some practical tips would really help and def recommend that book! x

Honestly I think 4 is the worst age for this, because they are very defiant but too big to manage by picking up. I don’t think your feelings are particularly irrational- they can be absolutely maddening. Any normal person would get angry, particularly when sleep-deprived too. I experienced these feelings with all mine at this age 😀. I managed it by making it a rule that I wouldn’t put my hands on them (eg pushing, carrying), because when you’re angry it’s hard to avoid being aggressive. I think it’s also important to have the consequences clear in your own mind, because often the anger reflects a feeling of helplessness about this child you can’t control. So if you know that the rule is that after being asked twice, then you take away 10 minutes of screen time, it helps to feel more in control.

Remember, it’s important for them to learn that if you’re annoying, people will get cross with you. It’s just about having enough control not to cross the line into scary and aggressive.

Oh I could have written this 18 months ago. I've been you. You will get through it.
Some stuff that helped us are the books mentioned above. Also trying to find things that make it not be me who's keeping us to a time, depersonalising it. (Saying we're leaving for school in 5-minutes means absolutely nothing to either of my children yet). Some strategies we use are: countdown using the Alexa, a visual timer (where it shows a chunk of red which gets smaller as it gets closer to going off) an old-fashioned sand timer...
We also had to do quite a lot of work to push bedtime earlier and it has got a huge amount easier since she started listening to audiobooks after lights out so even though she's not going to sleep until later she is at least lying down in the dark from no later than 8 p.m.
You'll get through it too.

Hi I've struggled with this too, a piece of advice I found helpful was that we use anger to cover up a difficult emotion. So when you feel angry with your daughter try and identify what difficult feeling you are avoiding. It might be that you feel embarassed you can't get to school on time or that you fear you don't have control over your daughter. If you can identify the negative emotion that the anger us covering up it can help get rid of the anger.

I'd suggest letting the school know that you are struggling to get there in the morning and that it's causing stress, and that you are trying to have a reset so that you aren't starting the morning angry. Let them know you might be late for the next week or so. I'm sure they would prefer her to arrive calm and late than on time and upset.

Final suggestion is to make sure you start using discipline BEFORE you get angry. So as soon as she starts playing up, calmly explain what the consequence will be. If she continues calmly say "I'm starting to feel cross", but say this before you actually are cross. Don't wait til you're really mad and shout "no TV all week".

I’m still struggling to come to terms with having a younger sibling and we’re in our 40s now.

It is a MASSIVE change for your daughter and her behaviour is a form of communication.

Thanks so so much everyone for your replies- all the advice and strategies sound so helpful and I will certainly be using those!

I have just been to collect my daughter from school and the teacher (who is lovely) took me aside and has told me she has some concerns that DD may be showing signs of ADHD, and she has recommended we make a GP appt to try and get a referral for an assessment.Whilst it's a shock to hear our little girl may have a condition like that, and worrying what challenges may lie ahead for her socially and educationally, it is a MASSIVE weight off my shoulders that someone finally agrees that her behaviour isn't 'normal' for her age, and the hyperactivity/not listening/not sleeping/being overly emotional and oppositional isn't just to do with our parenting!

I think it will make me feel alot more understanding with her knowing it isnt just naughtiness too, and seems to be something she can't control.

Being a parent is so so hard and children are honestly so bloody challenging!

I feel the same way an awful lot with our little boy (he's much younger, he's 19m) but his tantrums are awful and I find the constant whinging extremely triggering.

I've often lost my temper and shouted at him and he's cried at me afterward. I've always apologised to him and explained that mummy got upset too. I know he doesn't understand yet but he will.

My point is don't beat yourself up. It's great that you're asking for help and advice and you sound like you're a lovely mum. Sh*t mums don't care how they make their child feel and you clearly do.

Sending hugs, you've got this mama and you will get through this 🤍

Just came to also recommend those two books ('the book you wish your parents had read...' and 'how to talk so little kids.. '). Those books totally changed the way I relate to my toddler and I feel close closer to her as a result. I would suggest reading those, I think they will help you a lot. But I also think it sounds like you are probably quite tired and overwhelmed yourself. It might also be a good idea to try and get some more self care in if you can.

i know this post is from last year but Iv also been the same . Don’t be so hard on yourself, a lot of us as stay at home parents go through this!
I have 3 children under 4 and it is extremely challenging. I honestly know how hard it is.
The problem is, is that being a stay at home mum can be very isolating, lonely and repetitive which can add to the stress.
My 2 and 3 year old can be a handful and they are always fighting and arguing and I find myself shouting constantly and it’s horrible and I also feel guilty . I have a 3 month old who also depends on me so as you can imagine that makes it all more difficult.
my 3 year old is like a teenager all of a sudden . Everything is always NO or she’s screaming and shouting if she doesn’t get her own way . Sometimes I don’t know how to cope with it.
I myself am still very hormonal and what doesn’t help is that I recently had the hormonal coil fitted which has been hell and really played havoc on my emotions!
I also have anxiety and am a clean freak so constantly trying to stay on top of everything.
Trust me though you’re not alone . If you feel it’s getting to much then don’t be scared to ask for help.

Just wanted to say I could’ve written your post and agree that sleep deprivation, new baby and challenging little person make it very hard to remain calm. You sound like you’re doing all the right things - I need to read those books! x