5 year old hurting himself when upset or overwhelmed, school say if it happens qgain again will take him to a&e

[Leesh222]

Hi , first time poster !
My son is 5 I reception.
I suspect he may have mild autism and/or ocd, has been displaying some tick like movements on and off for over a year.
Settles well into school but became subdued before Christmas.
Stopped using his big voice, said he was shy, would get upset over small things, hurt himself when upset or misunderstood, eg, scratch his own hand or poke himself in the cheeks with a toy, one incident he was upset and hid behind a TV at school, teachers asked him to get out as he would get hurt, he replied he wants to get hurt, and has said similar a few times, he wants to get hurt but usually only when an adult points out that he could get hurt in said situation.
Call from school today, teacher has sought advice from the new head teacher and she's says if there are any more incidents my 5 year old is to be taken to a&e to see the mental health team !
Am I wrong for thinking this is drastic? To me this while only highlight the issue to a 5 year old, if he has an incident at school and is told he must go home/hospital, surely he will thinks he naughty or something wrong with him? I am awaiting a gp appointment but it isn't for a few weeks. Any advice or kind words? As i feel such a failure and all this talk of mental health teams has me so upset and worried. Thanks

Can you call your GP and ask for an emergency appt?

I’ve never heard of a teacher taking a kid to a&e to see a mental health team.

I would push for a GP appointment.

Bless him he obviously needs a lot more support at school than he is getting. Has he got a SEN plan?

Can school refer him for assessment? (Here it is the school and paediatrician but I know in other areas it's GP/CAMHS)

I can see why that sounds terrifying. It might be the best way to get him into the system quickly to be fair. Around here CAMHS won't see you unless you're suicidal because they're so under resourced. And the junior version for under 9s just never appeared at all for us.

Try not to worry. If sounds drastic but if it gets him the support you all need to help him, it will be good in the long run. Although I'm not sure A&E will thank them for it!

I think CAMHS support might be a good thing. What is most worrying in your post is how unconcerned you are your child is hurting themselves?

I cant imagine it would be that easy to see Mental Health team but there should be no stigma. CAMHS is a very useful tool for helping children through anxiety - the only problem tends to be not getting seen.

DD has had some CAMHS involvement for anxiety and it helped

He needs an IEP in school too. Push for him. You have to fight for stuff if they aren't forthcoming at school.

Have you got any support or got in contact with any SEN groups? There are some great parent-carer groups on facebook in my area.

If he is autistic or if it is anxiety in a way doesn't matter at this moment - he needs support. He wont be the first child who has found school overwhelming and has needed strategies to support them to manage school - are school working with you on this?

I agree about contacting the GP. If he is hurting himself,it could be his way of dealing with emotional pain. All sorts of things can cause distress if he is autistic and the sooner you know,if he is, the sooner you and the school can help him.

For some autistic kids that find school overwhelming the fight/flight response kicks in and they either try to physically escape or shut down or lash our (or inwards in your childs case). This may not mean he "wants" to hurt himself as such but is desperately trying to escape the overwhelm/oversensory/scary situation he feels he is in.

Silly.

You could ask your GP for an autism assessment or a referral to CAMhs or CAPs. In the meantime the school should be trying to work out what his triggers are and seeking to proactively manage them, by making sure he feels contained and safe. This might mean using pictures to help him understand transitions, or putting a small tent in the classroom as a safe retreat space he can use, etc. Having identified a need the code of practice for SEN says they must now offer him some things which are additional to, or different from, the standard offer in class. Doing nothing and then sending him to A and E when he scratches his hand in upset and frustration because he isn't managing the context, doesn't count.

Do you mean that the head says you should take him to hospital ?

I can't see that any teacher has the legal authority to take a child to hospital request treatment.

Sounds like your son needs a needs assessment. The school don’t sound helpful so you can make a parental request to the local authority.

The link below is very helpful and has templates for letters.

www.ipsea.org.uk/making-a-request-for-an-ehc-needs-assessment

I'm pretty certain the teacher can't take him to a&e and ask to see a mental health team. He's 5 and parental responsibility is yours, not the school.

I'd echo what other posters have said and get him seen by your GP. Take it from there.

You can’t take kids that young to see A&E MH teams. That the school isn’t aware of this is incredibly worrying. Make a complaint to the Head and demand they help you push for a formal assessment.

Teachers are damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

Yes, I think your son needs to see a mental health team asap.

1. You need a GP appointment asap
2. You need an appointment with the head asap
3. You need to talk with other parents who have relevant experience - I suggest the SEN boards

Teachers (especially with Head teacher permission/input) absolutely can take a child to A&E if they are at serious risk of harm for ANY medical reason be that mental or physical health. The school have a duty of care which is absolutely right. If the child had a physical ailment would you think the school couldn't transport them to hospital for urgent medical care?

To be honest this is extremely concerning and I don't get the impression that you as parent are taking it anywhere near seriously enough. Why is your GP appointment 'weeks' away? Would you accept that if it was a physical complaint. At 5 years old no child should be deliberately harming themselves or thinking/wishing they harm themselves. It's highly possible that its 'just' autism but it needs to be taken seriously and support in place and the school need to see you are taking it seriously.

At 5 years old no child should be deliberately harming themselves or thinking/wishing they harm themselves If you are a child mental health professional you are qualified to make this statement but actually the behaviour of children in distress is complicated, and must not be judged against teen/adult expectations, and what the OP needs is professional medical input as soon as possible.

This may seem odd, but could he mis-understand the concept of 'get hurt'. so he has learnt that if he has a scratch / cut or if someone says the words 'hurt' then he gets cuddles & comfort. He wants the cuddles & comfort, so he makes a scratch or puts himself in a dangerous place to get it.

@parietal

This may seem odd, but could he mis-understand the concept of 'get hurt'. so he has learnt that if he has a scratch / cut or if someone says the words 'hurt' then he gets cuddles & comfort. He wants the cuddles & comfort, so he makes a scratch or puts himself in a dangerous place to get it.

This doesn;t sound odd, it is why it needs a specialist not a non-specialist like the teacher to interpret what is going on.

With a child of five it could be almost anything, ranging from very serious to not at all.

I can see why a teacher might see a repeated incident if a child wanting to be hurt as a serious safeguarding issue.
From your point of view if you know they're is no dynamic at home which might trigger this (he isn't spoken to as though he is rubbish, called names etc, even from siblings) then your best bet might be to schedule a task with the school to discuss it as a mutual concern. They get to see your worried and what you think might be causing it, you get to see if they have decent strategies in place to help him step away from triggers if things are over whelming at school. You can see their attitude etc.
A fellow parent at my child's school has a child who in reception /yr1 was hiding under tables, lashing out at others (different behaviour but still emotional distress) at school, crying when going in etc. The school were intolerant of difference and gave no support to struggling children. The child came to our school and it was like night and day cos the new school allowed him breathing spaces to regulate himself etc and he was accepted as himself.
I'm not saying your school is causing this, but some schools are better at handling it.
First you need to establish a dialogue with them for their reassurance and yours.
If you find they are supportive you might be able to design strategies that help between you. With my dc I had to do this and with my inside knowledge from home and schools from their experience we were able to put the pieces together to work out how to help. Now my dc is a much happier child and able to thrive.

Sounds like the school are having an extreme reaction to what your son says, I don't think they would get very far at A&E for goodness sake!
Ask for a meeting with the class teacher and SENCO. Tell them your concerns and your scheduled GP appointment and ask school to keep a record of any incidents or concerns. You will need this if and when you ever get to assessment for ASD stage.
My son has Autism and he used to say things like that, he couldn't process emotions and feelings and even now as a teenager he has a bad reaction to any disappointments. He does say extreme things sometimes but has never acted on any of this, i was told by Camhs it was just autism and a typical response and not a concern and not a mental health issue.
Ask school to keep a log of concerns and you do the same and take it to the GP and ask for a referral for an autism assessment.

Poor lad. He's not coping, is he?
He's obviously reacting to feeling stressed and overwhelmed.
The classroom/school environment is really tough for many kids, whether they have special needs or not.
But yes, he should get a fast track referral to CAMHS.

I wonder if you could ask his teacher for movement breaks. I am not diagnosing your boy in the least, OP. But movement breaks are 5 minute breaks for children who get overwhelmed in the classroom. They usually have about 3 a day. Talk with the school SENCO.
Observe your little boy and see what triggers his stress.

My youngest is autistic and I learned early on that he just needed a really mellow, peaceful environment. Knowing what stresses him is the best way of helping him to reduce that sense of being overwhelmed. He's in year 3 now and between my own learning and the school's support, he's adapted brilliantly to mainstream school over the years.

Also... to add to my last post: Lean into the school for support, OP.
You can book a meeting with the school's family support worker. They're there to offer you emotional support. It is exceedingly stressful when our children are struggling to cope with life. But they're human and so are we. So honestly, don't hold back from booking meetings with SENCO, teachers, and family support workers. They're there to help your family and specifically, your little boy.