Argumentative 4 yo

[Flyingtiger]

DD is becoming increasingly difficult to deal with. She's been such an easy going sweet girl, adored by relatives and friends, however ever since she turned 4 (3 months ago) she turned into something else. I don't actually mind her arguing with me or her dad that much, but she does it with other kids and mums in playgrounds, to the point that once a mum had to tell her off and take her child and move away.

I'm becoming very anxious whenever we go out or have playdates. Can anyone relate? Is there hope?

How did it get the the point another mum had to give her unto trouble and move her child away? Where were you? What was she arguing about?

I was about 2 meters away from her. She was having a chat and a laugh with this mum and a little toddler, that happens a lot. And then suddenly they started arguing about something, I intervened, she started screaming and pushing me, I asked her to go and apologize, she didn't want to, threw the child's toy away. In the meantime they packed their stuff and left.

I tell myself that maybe 4yodd will be a barrister or a human rights advocate. I encourage discussion and free thinking but spend time explaining when she has been inadvertently rude or why people might not like her saying things in a certain way. She's never trying to be horrible, she feels strongly about a lot of things though and needs to learn when to be more laid back. She is learning who she is, I don't want her to lose her assertiveness however I'm trying to teach her how to channel it appropriately.

@SparkleSky sounds like my DD. She has unfortunately been bullied a couple of times in the summer and I was telling myself that I wish she was more assertive. She went to opposite way now and I can't seem to be able to redirect her. She is, at times, borderline obnoxious.

Another situation yesterday. She had a little play in the park with one of her friends and the friend's mum tried to help my DD get off a tree stump, rather than letting her jump off by herself. She was upset by it and kept going: why did you touch me?! You are not supposed to touch me, I have to do it by myself. And went on and on. Why did you do it? Why Why...

I am an introvert and very reserved and I honestly don't know what approach to take. I always intervene but then she starts crying or arguing with me, making things even worse.

@Flyingtiger

Another situation yesterday. She had a little play in the park with one of her friends and the friend's mum tried to help my DD get off a tree stump, rather than letting her jump off by herself. She was upset by it and kept going: why did you touch me?! You are not supposed to touch me, I have to do it by myself. And went on and on. Why did you do it? Why Why...

I am an introvert and very reserved and I honestly don't know what approach to take. I always intervene but then she starts crying or arguing with me, making things even worse.

Where were you? She has a good point. I wouldn’t want my child being touched by other parents unnecessarily either. There’s no reason to help a 4 yo to get off a tree stump.

Ozanj..I was there with her, her friend's mum was just a bit closer and kindly tried to help. I did not see any harm in that

@FlyingTiger your second example sounds a lot like my dd too, she has a completely valid point and it's what we have emphasised with my dcs about bodily autonomy too but it's also rigid thinking and not appreciating at all that things aren't always black and white. She is my eldest and I wonder about something else going on underneath as she is intelligent and articulate but often struggles to cope emotionally; has big and very loud reactions to things that upset her and misses me a lot when she's at school. I don't know whether this is standard for four year olds; it is good to hear of someone else's dd who is similar in some ways; perhaps they will grow out of it.

Oh this sounds so much like my 4 year old son. He's the sweetest kid ever when he's calm but he goes about the asserting part in totally the wrong way. The teacher asked to talk to me the other day as she'd tried to move him for talking and not working in class and he'd told shouted no he didn't want to, then followed by I'll tell my mummy on you. Then cried.

It's so hard to walk the line between letting him find his voice so he's not a target for bullying later on and stopping him from being rude. We've had some success with not surprising him with things (eg. in ten minutes we are going to stop playing and get our shoes on to go out) so he knows what is coming. And trying to be firm but soft when we tell him things. So if he says no he's not going to do it I give him time to think about his decision, eg. he doesn't want to get his pjs on, I'll tell him he has five minutes to come upstairs to do so and if he comes up in those five minutes he'll get two stories, at 5 minutes I'll remind him and say he has five minutes to come up and still get one story, after that he will get no stories. And then we will stick to it. He makes the decision to come up by himself and usually quite quickly when left alone to think about it.

In person all I've found is to warn him at the time and apologise then properly talk it later once he's calmer if he's upset someone. He is a good kid though. He'll usually realise within five minutes of being nasty and voluntarily apologise for shouting. He is genuinely sad if he thinks he upset them.

He's gotten much better at not pushing and hitting with time. We've talked about the police in calm times as he is interested when they go by with their sirens, and I explained that I understand that he is young and learning not to do it, but if me or his father or another adult was to push and hit someone the police would come because as people get bigger they can really hurt people by doing those things. It feels like he absorbed that talk quite well.

I don't actually mind her arguing with me or her dad that much, but she does it with other kids and mums in playgrounds, to the point that once a mum had to tell her off and take her child and move away.

If you allow her to argue with you, then she is going to think that is the appropriate way to behave, so it's no wonder she is arguing with other people.
What consequences are there when she does this?
She seems like she has a point with what she is saying, it's just the delivery that is the problem.
You could try giving her a time out when she speaks like that, clearly tell her the way she is talking is unacceptable and she can sit and think about what she has said, when she is ready to apologise she can do that then continue to play, if she is still refusing after 10 minutes, take her home she no longer gets to play.

Re the tree stump, its fine and completely normal that she wanted to do it by herself. Does the friend have much younger children and/or form for being overbearing because she was treating her more like a 2YO. I think it’s about telling your DD how we say things. As in you say to her that she wasn’t polite and all she needed to say is no thank you, I don’t need any help. As for the park, I’d probably steer her away from chatting with adults full stop. I can’t be the only one that finds it really annoying when kids do this, and that’s without even considering the arguing. Either she plays nicely, on the equipment or with other children, or it’s home time.

And I wouldn’t put up with arguing at home either. I used to put mine in time out until she calms down then listen and take seriously whatever she says providing it’s being shouted. Thankfully it wasn’t a long lived phase.

Providing it’s NOT being shouted!