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6 year old struggling with maths but won’t be helped

36 replies

AppleBerryCrumble · 21/01/2022 17:59

DD1 is in year 2. She’s always been on track at school before, is a particularly good reader and typically has oodles of common sense. She is, however, reluctant to do anything academic with us at home and panics about getting things wrong. We only did a little bit of homeschooling in the lockdowns due to our jobs, but she spend most of that time throwing herself on the floor in disdain whenever we made any sort of comment that wasn’t “yes, that’s exactly right”. There was also a period when she wasn’t being taught as the school offered only childcare and I was working long hours, directly involved in the national Covid response.

We’ve got into a rhythm with reading at home everyday and just about get her through her weekly spelling without her having a breakdown about the 1 or 2 words she has to think about (village not villige, orange not oringe). She invariably gets 10/10 in the weekly quiz at school.

Her teacher approached me this morning and said she was really struggling at the moment with maths, that this is unusual as she is usually “strong” at school and she wants to intervene early. We agreed to talk further next week. I was going to suggest we swap out reading at home with maths every other day, but I need some direction in what she needs to learn maths wise.

I asked DD casually this evening how she is finding maths. She said she had found it tricky recently but was getting better. She said they were doing multiplication and she had been “dreadful” to begin with but now got it. I asked her a few 2x, 3x and 5x questions and she got them all right. However, I have noticed that she finds things like “3 more than” or “5 less than” tricky. We’ve been playing a variety of games to try to address this (manopoly, dice games etc.) but it is persisting.

I have no idea how to teach a 6 year old maths. We’ve used reading eggs’ mathseeds programmes in the past, but she’s just done the placement test (as we haven’t used it in a while) and it’s put her back a bit from where she was previously. She is now catatonic with despair.

I really don’t know what to do. I’ve just let her go to watch the TV as I don’t want to make a big deal of it.

Her sister is 2 years younger, but very bright (and doesn’t give a stuff when she makes a mistake). I think there’s a good chance she will catch up her elder sister fairly soon and that is going to be a disaster for DD1’s confidence. But she’s still clever, just not exceptional like DD2. We obviously don’t say anything to this effect, but both are very astute about it. DD2 sometimes does different work to her peers at school, for example.

DH and I are also very high academic achievers, so this is new to us. While we’re not at all competitive at home, DD1 has exactly the sort of personality where she would compare herself negatively and undermine herself completely.

Help!!

OP posts:
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WhoppingBigBackside · 21/01/2022 18:03

Could you teach her everyday 'sums; without labelling it as maths?

AppleBerryCrumble · 21/01/2022 18:31

@WhoppingBigBackside

Could you teach her everyday 'sums; without labelling it as maths?
That was the idea of the games. She is clever enough to spot what you’re trying to do and then you get “oh no, not maths, I can’t do maths”.

With reading, we implemented a very clear structure and expectation. No TV before you’ve read a book. It was very painful initially, but now she comes to me with the books and she’s an excellent reader. I think we need to do the same with maths, but I’m not as clear on how to help with it. There’s loads of guidance from school on reading, but nothing around maths.

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Nosetickle · 21/01/2022 18:50

I’m having the same with my year 2 DC. She’s excellent at reading, writing and spelling but just can’t get to grips with maths at all. She doesn’t even want to try. It’s such a battle. She’s recently been moved to the lower group in her class for maths and slowly is getting her confidence back. I’m just not pushing it, I’m confident she’ll get there. I was exactly the same at her age and maths didn’t click for me until year 11 and I ended up doing really well and now do a job that involves a lot of maths. It doesn’t come easily to me though like English did. I have to work hard at it and that needed to click in my mind and I needed to want to work hard and see a point to it. I don’t know if that helps, my advice is relax and let her come to it in her own time.

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AppleBerryCrumble · 21/01/2022 19:04

Thanks @Nosetickle.

Not wanting to try is a big thing. She seems to expect to be able to do things instantly and if she can’t, sees it as a failing.

I’m very hard on myself too, but if I can’t do something my reaction is to work harder, not give up. So I have to manage my frustration internally! We talk about marvellous mistakes, and how if you’re getting everything right, you’re not learning.

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MaizeAmaze · 21/01/2022 20:21

If she responded well to enforce reading before TV, could you add a maths worksheet?
CGP do a weekly 10 minute workout. You could start with year 1 "as covid stopped so much school last year".

It sounds like she would object to this, but we used to do things like "I only got 2 biscuits out of the cupboard, how many more do I need so we can all have one (or two, or three as she get confident!).
Daily tables practice too - only needs to be 5 or 10 questions.

SingToTheSky · 21/01/2022 20:24

Could you try and get some manipulatives to leave around the house - not even to do actual work with her yet. Things like Numicon or cuisinaire (sp?!) rods are nice to fiddle with, make patterns etc but help with getting the concepts in a more physical way

HalfShrunkMoreToGo · 21/01/2022 20:41

During lockdown DD was struggling with money so we setup a snack shop on the dining room table, gave her a load of coins and told her that from now on she needed to buy all her snacks and sort out change. That really helped with both money but also basic addition and subtraction.

For multiplication she has a big multiplication poster on her wall which has been up for a couple of years and every now and again she will recite by choice her 8 times table for example. We also throw occasional questions in as part of conversation so if we're talking about swimming class I'll say something like, there are 6 people in your class aren't there? If there's 5 classes in the pool at the same time how many kids do you think there are all together in the pool?

BlackeyedSusan · 21/01/2022 20:44

food.

sweeties, pieces of fruit, pieces of pasta pieces of cereal... things you do not mind her eating. count out the things... ask her to add two more and count them.. then she can eat the things... repeat with a different thing.. I did this with dd when she was little. (start small with "and one more is..." do not progress too fast so that she can gain confidence... )

RomainingCalm · 21/01/2022 21:22

I'm afraid that I can't help with the maths but it might be worth having a look online for information/resources about encouraging a Growth Mindset in children. Part of this is about developing resilience, feeling it's ok to make mistakes and rewarding effort not just results.

DistrictCommissioner · 21/01/2022 21:28

At this age I would go down the manipulatives route - cuisenaire rods, numicon, just beans…

This book is good for maths based games/tasks, we used it while home educating (not Covid) www.abebooks.co.uk/9780912511061/Family-Math-Equals-Series-Jean-0912511060/plp

TinyTeacher · 21/01/2022 21:37

I wouldn't worry about being a little behind in maths (especially as she doesn't sound very far behind if at all), but the "I can't do it" attitude might cause issues in the long run. I'm with @RomainingCalm about the Growth Mindset attitude.

Personally, I'd focus on building confidence in low stress ways before returning to workbooks. My DD is a year younger, but she really enjoys watching numberblocks - DH and I (Both teachers and verysceptical about tv generally) both find it has a surprising amount of concepts drip-fed in - odds and evens, squares, prime numbers, factors.... orDD's school used some of the games on Top Marks for a bit of "fun" that is maths related. Once she is feeling more confident you can return to more practice, but just do a very small amount to start with and build it up.

AppleBerryCrumble · 22/01/2022 16:09

Thank you everyone. There’s some very useful suggestions in here. Growth mindset sounds like something to look into, for sure.

She’s at a party this afternoon and DH has taken her. He’s just text me to say she had a half hour melt down after losing a game, took a further 15 minutes to coax back into joining in and he’s had to go and sit in the car so she can’t run back to him and might be less likely to make a fuss.

I am very worried about her resilience. And that she’s going to embarrass herself as she gets older. She’s very, very popular, but I can’t see that continuing if she behaves like this! 😱

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PostingForTheFirstTime · 22/01/2022 16:18

I don't have any advice on how to handle the confidence/competitive behaviour issues, but your post struck a chord with me. My younger daughter also struggled with maths. She never progressed beyond the first level of Kumon.

I only discovered that dyscalculia (a specific and persistent difficulty in understanding numbers) is a thing when she was much older. While we knew one daughter was dyslexic, and were able to access the well-established educational supports for her, we never even realised the youngest's inability to do maths was a similar thing.

ritalinda · 22/01/2022 16:24

Could she be autistic? I'm not saying she IS before anyone has a go at me, only that this rigidity and perfectionism and meltdowns alongside problems with maths but being good at reading is a common pattern with autistic girls.

Could you try rewarding maths mistakes? I know that sounds bonkers but it would prompt her to try and get her used to making errors, even wiring mistakes with something good in her brain. Like, do 10 fun sums and for every one you get wrong you get a sweet/chocolate coin/5 extra mins of cartoons/whatever she is motivated by.

AppleBerryCrumble · 22/01/2022 16:34

I briefly wondered about autism when she was younger. The fuss she would make about some clothes (socks in particular) was ridiculous. She’s still a bit fussy. I have taken her ice skates off to readjust them 3 times before her lesson on a number of occasion. But as soon as she’s on the ice, it’s all fine. She says she doesn’t like waistbands, but is not consistent about it. It feels like more of a ploy to wear what she wants and she is very headstrong and, sadly, fashion conscious.

But I’ve moved away from the thought. Lots of parent friends have described similar clothes issues with their children. And her emotional intelligence is way beyond what you’d expect in a 6 year old.

It’s also not that she’s generally bad at maths. Some concepts come easy (fractions, for example) and she’s had no problem up until now. Until I talk to her teacher more, I’m not sure what it is specifically that’s the problem and she is talking early intervention, not crisis resolution.

I won’t rule it out, but I don’t think there would be any value in a diagnosis at this point anyway.

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110APiccadilly · 22/01/2022 16:35

If you have time, baking can be good. Particularly if you need to make a recipe which calls for, for instance, 3 eggs, but discover that you only have 2 eggs you can spare. Now you'll have to adapt all the quantities!

Bake in pounds/ ounces if your scale will let you, just because they're easier numbers to work with. Put the bowl on the scale, zero it, measure out your 5oz of butter, and then say, "Now we need 4oz of flour, so where should the scale be then?" And so on.

AppleBerryCrumble · 22/01/2022 16:37

And her emotional intelligence is way beyond what you’d expect in a 6 year old.

Well, aside from the inability to cope with failure, or perceived failure.

Her empathy is astounding.

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choosername1234 · 22/01/2022 16:41

My son also struggled with making mistakes. We actually role played making mistakes and saying things like "oh dear, I didn't get that right, I'll try again". It's been slow but he's much better now

Thenose · 22/01/2022 17:12

Please don't suggest that a person can't be empathetic as well as autistic. It's incorrect and extremely offensive.

ritalinda · 22/01/2022 17:17

@Thenose

Please don't suggest that a person can't be empathetic as well as autistic. It's incorrect and extremely offensive.
I don't think the OP was trying to offend. Most people don't realise that autistic women in particular tend to be extremely empathetic, even to an unusually high degree. It's a common misconception unless you are very knowledgeable about the topic. OP is saying she'll keep it in mind anyway 👍🏼
AppleBerryCrumble · 22/01/2022 17:24

@Thenose

Please don't suggest that a person can't be empathetic as well as autistic. It's incorrect and extremely offensive.
Apologies. I didn’t mean to offend and I’m clearly misinformed.

I’ve mentioned potential autism to nursery and school staff before and the response I’ve always been that she doesn’t display the behaviour they would expect.

I’ve just done some reading and that’s obviously out of date based on more recent research.

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Thenose · 22/01/2022 17:26

I agree ritalinda. I don't think the op meant to offend; it's a popular misconception. However, it's also damaging and misleading, and shouldn't be left unchallenged.

Highdaysandholidaze · 22/01/2022 17:30

Re: maths. Cuisinaire rods are AMAZING as is numberblocks.

Re: fear of failure - it can help to model failure yourself. Every time you get something wrong, try to draw attention to it ‘Silly mummy, I thought the biscuits were in that cupboard and they aren’t’. That kind if thing.

AppleBerryCrumble · 22/01/2022 17:32

I’m happy to be politely corrected, and it’s not unhelpful in trying to understand what is happening with DD.

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Iwonderwhatsnext · 22/01/2022 17:32

I’m a teacher and taught children your dds age. Mathematic language is a tough one for so many at this age. All I would suggest is keeping it light and making it fun.

I also am a massive fan of growth mindset. I used to bang on all the time about how mistakes are a good thing for our learning as they are an opportunity to learn something. We even used to celebrate mistakes! It is a mindset change…(especially since I was at school!)
I would model making mistakes to her so that she sees they are no big deal. Happy to email you over some of my training resources on growth mindesrt if you want.

Children who are used to excelling can sometimes find year 2 difficult as the content is a big step up from reception year one. Xx

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