Preschool 'mean kids'

[funder]

Any help or advice appreciated.

I have a preschool age child. They are very sweet natured and gentle, smart and emotionally intelligent.

I have noticed that other children their age are being 'mean' to my child. In the park, at nursery etc. different children in different situations. Varying from name calling to pushing/hitting, excluding from games and ganging up on them.

I don't know what advice to give my child on how to deal with these interactions. I've gone with "tell them not to touch you and walk away. You don't want to be friends with others who aren't kind"

I'm really at a loss as to how to deal with it. I'm not sure if certain personalities attract bullies but I want to arm them with as many tools as I can to get ahead of situations like this.

When my ds was in nursery he had a Few issues with kids hitting him I told him to shout as loud as possible don’t hit me ideally so a teacher or someone saw not sure if it’s the right advice but had to try.

We had this a fair amount - DS is very gentle, and was also a bit shy with other children st that age, so he would just crumple (literally lie on the floor) if he was pushed or hit.

In the park I’d step in. We deliberately picked a very crunchy Montessori style nursery who cracked down on pushing and shoving. There wasn’t much we could do about school, so he has just had to deal with it - we encourage him to shove back (the teacher isn’t interested and just tells him they have to sort it out themselves). At least in reception it is low level squabbling rather than actual bullying - no idea how we’ll handle it when he’s older.

Unfortunately my child was the hitter/pusher (luckily grown out of it now she is getting closer to school age!).

I think your advice is good. Telling them that they are being unkind, walking away. I'd also add in to then tell an adult, so that it can be dealt with appropriately by them.

My little one isn't in nursery yet and thank god he stopped the pushing and hitting before 2.5 but I notice when he wants to play with children in the park or join in he gets pushed away especially from the girls where they deliberately exclude him and as soon as ds gets close not to play with them but because they are crowding the slide without using it and ds wants to slide down the slide, they start saying things like "go away" or "don't come close". Again ds doesn't physically touch them or try to play with them after being rejected but even going about his own business I hear pretty cruel and mean stuff.

I don't worry about him not defending himself as he will push back if someone hits but it's just heartbreaking to see these little playground squabbles and these little kids are at least a year or two older than ds so I can only imagine it is very common as I come across this everyday just being in the park or soft play. He loves older boys though and they tend to stimulate him very well and more cool with everything so now he just completely ignores pre schoolers completely.

I also very openly say to him "make sure you give space" "let's be gentle", "we don't play with unkind mean people" or I say " we only play with friends that are kind" or if there's children who aren't mean but don't want to play I will say " look this friend doesn't want to play today, maybe he is tired".

Thanks all.

It's so difficult watching it unfold in front of you without stepping in... especially when the other parents are aware that their children are bulling.

@ticklishfingers I'll use your "we don't play with mean children" line and distract. I've been trying to find some good resources to reference but struggling - everything seem to be advice if your kid is the bully.

It's awful isn't it? DD is 3.5, very affectionate and emotional and a bit of a follower, and she's really in the thrall of a couple of slightly older girls at preschool who I think are a bit mean. They pick her up and drop her, exclude her then include her, tell her some of the things she likes are stupid but then want to borrow her toys and dress up stuff. I'm all for the laws of the playground and building resilience but I confess to having rather evil thoughts about these girls

I think at that age it's important not to label any child as a bully. Labels stick and become self-fulfilling. In Reception at primary school there was a child who was selfish and snatchy and kicked and punched and looked like he was heading towards being a bully. I explained to my own child that everyone is learning new things and school isn't just about learning your letters and numbers and things but also about learning to take turns and share and be friendly with each other, and Paul hasn't learned as much as you have about those things yet, but maybe he will. Your teachers have to keep everyone safe so if anyone isn't safe then it's ok to tell the teacher, but if Paul does something mean it's more important to help him to learn how to be more friendly and less mean than it is for the mean thing to be punished. A decade later and Paul is a nice kid. Not at all violent or bullying any more. Actually quite the opposite - shy and introverted - which makes me wonder if the early violence was more an acting out of the stress and upset he was experiencing as he adapted to the school environment.

I agree with @BuanoKubiamVej

Labelling children at 3 “bullies” is a really sad thing to do and doesn’t reflect well on the adults doing so. Do you really believe some children are “bad”?

@BuanoKubiamVej

I think at that age it's important not to label any child as a bully. Labels stick and become self-fulfilling. In Reception at primary school there was a child who was selfish and snatchy and kicked and punched and looked like he was heading towards being a bully. I explained to my own child that everyone is learning new things and school isn't just about learning your letters and numbers and things but also about learning to take turns and share and be friendly with each other, and Paul hasn't learned as much as you have about those things yet, but maybe he will. Your teachers have to keep everyone safe so if anyone isn't safe then it's ok to tell the teacher, but if Paul does something mean it's more important to help him to learn how to be more friendly and less mean than it is for the mean thing to be punished. A decade later and Paul is a nice kid. Not at all violent or bullying any more. Actually quite the opposite - shy and introverted - which makes me wonder if the early violence was more an acting out of the stress and upset he was experiencing as he adapted to the school environment.

I completely agree and I actually think that telling your child that other children are 'mean children' (rather than that they're behaving meanly) is potentially setting them up to be quite unpleasant. Telling them that those other kids are just bad and not as good as them at such a young age isn't a great or healthy message.

So how to I approach it?

I do not want my child to think that this behaviour is okay and they should just accept it. It is bullying behaviour whether it's from a preschooler or a teen. I want to be able to give my DC the tools to identify and cope with this treatment. I understand children act out for all different reasons but I am not willing to just ignore that it is happening. I am happy to use the words mean behaviour and not mean kids.

I don't want to blame the child, but to ask for advice on how to help my DC process and cope with this type of behaviour. So great that you guys are telling me what not to do, but any advice on what to do? Books/ resources I can show my child to help process this?

Preschool children can be bloody horrible. When my ds was around 2.5 he wanted to play near two 4 year old girls in a park. Think, “you can’t play near us, go away”, “you’re not allowed on the slide”, “we don’t like you, go away”, “WE DONT LIKE YOU”. It broke my heart but I could tell it was just typical kids behaviour. He wasn’t really doing anything to be in their way though. I stood nearby flashing a frown at the kids and their parents, who willingly ignored the nastiness. The kids knew somewhat that they were in the wrong as they’d keep checking to see if I was looking. I was so angry with the parents for not intervening.

I’ve realised in these situations I just have to deal with it myself. Next time I’ll loudly declare, “come on ds, you don’t want to play near children who are being nasty”. I don’t care if it hurts the kids feelings. I don’t care if it hurts the parents feelings. If it continues, I’ll tell the kids to shut up myself.

I honestly think you should think about how is really upset about this - is it them or is it you? The more you turn this into a huge drama where they're the victim of 'bullying' if another child behaves badly in a park the more they're likely to absorb it. Of course you should protect and remove them from the situation if they're being hit - surely you are already? - but otherwise I'd be quite breezy about it. Play with him yourself in the park if the other children don't want him to join in, but without making a fuss about it.

*who is really upset

@HardbackWriter the problem is, the instigator child and most of the other children all go to the same preschool as my DS. My child has started getting upset about going to school and will talk about the children doing XYZ. When he has always been so happy to go previously. Yesterday we were all in the park together and it became apparent that it was very much 'them' against DS.

I would like to be able to talk him through it and give him coping strategies for when I'm not there to make sure it doesn't become a bigger problem.

Kids can be mean, it's common and 'normal' but not acceptable behaviour. I absolutely hate it when I see it, and am always astonished when parents see their own child being mean and don't step in.

However, is it possible your DS is getting upset now about school etc because they sense you're upset and stressed? Reading books, finding strategies and having serious chats with your child will make it a big deal to them, when while it's not nice, it is a common aspect of childhood.

I agree with others that a breezy 'let's go and do something else' approach with your child is probably best in the park scenario you described.

If your child tells you that other children did things to them when you weren't there it's a fine balance between showing care and concern and overreacting (not saying you are) which makes them more fearful. I'd probably go for a "Oh dear that doesn't sound very nice for you. I'll speak to your teacher tomorrow so they know to keep an eye out. Now, what would you like to play with next" approach. That way your child has heard you care and understands you are going to do something to help them, sees that it's a solvable problem but also that you are not unduly worried, meaning they don't need to be worried either.

Learning to walk away from someone being mean is an absolutely key skill. Zen den on YouTube has 'the mean bug' and put simply, if someone is being mean, get away from them.

I've got two very sensitive dc, one who was verbally well ahead of peers and with the elder one we tried far too hard to understand why people behaved the way they did, go into situations in depth and honestly, the best thing you can do for them is to make sure they understand that sometimes people are mean, the reason is less important, get away from them even if it means going and playing on your own.

Tell someone if it's physical.

Even for clever kids able to understand nuance, a simple strategy empowers them to cope.

Another day the same kid may play nicely.

And very often speaking to the teacher/key worker etc is pointless as they didn't observe anything, or it wasn't how it came across and you have then created a feedback loop where you demonstrate your powerlessness to fix the behaviour.

Empowering them to deal with it is where you want to be.

It's fine to speak to the nursery staff so they can keep an eye and step in. You don't have to put up with your child being pushed/hit, name called because the kids are little. If no one steps in and pulls them up on it they won't learn. If you saw your own child doing that I'm sure you wouldn't just say "he's only little. It's fine." Some kids don't grow out of it. Probably their parents always said "Aww he's only little"

The labelling I must admit maybe is not the best way to approach but I do this deliberately so the parents can hear it and maybe take an action because when it's not tackled and if they don't grow out of it, they tend to continue like that don't they? I'm always careful with my ds and always tell him to be gentle, kind, take turns etc and let him know it's not acceptable and technically walk away as we don't make friends with mean children.

The slides, the park doesn't belong to one child only. Fine if you don't want to play my ds is cool with rejections and won't bother you but you can't take ownership of the whole playing frame telling little children what they can or can't do and be mean to them setting rules. Ds is nearly 3 and no way would I ever allow him to behave like that but I don't think he would be like these kids anyway in the future because again it's something I wouldn't allow and would tackle if he becomes a little self entitled mean little prince/ss.

@scaredsadandstuck thank you that is great advice. I haven't spoken to my DC about it as yet - other than telling him to walk away from friends who aren't being nice. I wanted to get some guidance before going over it because I really don't know the best approach. I was hoping there was a good podcast or something I could listen to as I'm fearful of saying or doing the wrong thing.

@funder

If you are on Instagram, maybe have a look at Sarah Ockwell Smith’s page? She has a lot of videos on topics such as how empathy develops in young children, typical pre-school behaviours and you canals on submit parenting questions for her input.

Can not canals!

[quote funder]@HardbackWriter the problem is, the instigator child and most of the other children all go to the same preschool as my DS. My child has started getting upset about going to school and will talk about the children doing XYZ. When he has always been so happy to go previously. Yesterday we were all in the park together and it became apparent that it was very much 'them' against DS.

I would like to be able to talk him through it and give him coping strategies for when I'm not there to make sure it doesn't become a bigger problem. [/quote]
Ok, if it's the same few children all the time - which isn't how you made it sound - then you need to book a meeting with the preschool staff. Listen to how they're tackling this, and consider moving him if it doesn't seem adequate. If it's a persistent problem at preschool then it needs grown-up intervention. You may also need to be prepared for it to turn out that it isn't as entirely one-sided as it seems to you. If it's random kids at the park then that's a bit different.

I don’t think it’s bullying, they are toddlers.

Children all have different personalities and at this age they are all working out where they fit in, some will be loud and bossy whilst others maybe quiet and submissive, some will be really sensitive and others full of confidence. It’s all about learning how to behave and how to react to other people’s behaviours.

I know it’s not nice seeing your child picked on, my dd went through years of being picked on during to being sensitive and not very confident, there was many times I wanted to step in (and several times I had to).

DS started at a new nursery (preschool) when he turned three. One day he came home and kept saying "George said I'm silly" (or words to that effect). I taught him to say, "that's not very kind" and got him to repeat it a few times. No idea if that was the right thing or if he did it and if he did, if it worked, but it hasn't come up again. I also agree with teaching your child to walk away, but I would do this in addition to teaching them to say something, as I feel it's important that they know they can stick up for themselves (but then I do have a big gob that I struggle to keep shut sometimes 😅). Agree with posters that you should always label behaviour, not the person (it makes a huuuuuge difference). I'd also just mention it to preschool. We did when we noticed DS talking about catty behaviour and it turns out the preschool room had been doing some work on it already. Good luck!