Bottle feeding in the night

[AliveAndSleeping]

Currently, 5 month old is combination fed. If he wakes up in the night I usually breastfeed him first and then prepare a bottle of formula. I'm planning to stop breastfeeding soon but am a bit confused about how to prepare a bottle in the night without letting him cry for very long.

During the day I use hot water from a thermos, mix half the required amount of water with formula and then add the second half of required amount of boiled cooled down water. This results in the formula being at exactly the temperature that ds likes and takes only about 5 minutes. However, the water in the thernos only stays above 70 C for about 4h so even if I fill it up just before going to bed it might not last long enough for ds' next feed. Boiling water in the kettle takes ages especially if it needs to cool down a bit first (according to NHS websites and manufacturer's instructions you should wait for 30min bit I only wait for ten minutes or so). So in the night I mostly use ready made formula but that also takes quite long to warm up, ie about 5-10 minutes. I use mam bottles. Other bottles might be quicker but he rejects everything else.

I think now breastfeeding him first takes the edge off his hunger a little bit but once I stop breastfeeding I'm not sure what to do. Any ideas?

We broke all the rules - made all our bottles for the day in the morning and kept them in the fridge (might make one for overnight in the evening), used the microwave to heat them. In order to reduce the (already small) risk from this we kept sterilising the bottles even when she was over a year. Now that she's on cow's milk it's so much easier - just bung it in the bottle, microwave and go

If you open the NHS website it says under common formula questions that made up formula can be stored in the fridge and used within 24hrs.

If made-up formula is stored:

in a fridge – use within 24 hours
in a cool bag with an ice pack – use within 4 hours
at room temperature – use within 2 hours

Hope that helps x

Oops the NHS website says I can store for 24h I'm the fridge. I'm sure I saw somewhere that you can't. Havr they changed the advice again? Have I gone crazy?

So that would still leave me with the problem if having to heat it up,which again takes about ten minutes.

Ps also the cold water you top up with doesn't have to be boiled. It's a common misconception that bottles need to be made with sterile water - not so. The hot water is to kill any bugs in the powder, as long as that's done you can top up with regular water from the tap. Lots of people don't seem to understand this and make bottles with cold, previously boiled water, which achieves nothing, might as well make them with water straight from the tap

If you actually believe all the microdamage to bottles malarky then im not sure there is a way around it. Sounds like you're doing it as fast as possible with that taken into account.

But yes, boiling water straight from a kettle. Cooled, boiled water thats been in the fridge. Mix the two. You have a bottle in about 1 min.

Or get a perfect prep machine.

Re. Your last message - the instructions on the formula always say to make and use straight away, this is to totally minimise risk (also to them, of being sued...) But as per the NHS website, the risk of nasties growing if it's in the fridge for 24hrs is very minimal, especially if you sterilise the bottles. Ditto with the microwave - the only reason you're told not to use that is the risk of hot spots if you forget to shake it. If you're confident you will always remember to shake it, there's no reason not to (assuming you have one)

I think the problem is that if you follow all of the instructions on the back of a tin of formula you basically end up stuck in a cycle of boiling, cooling, mixing etc that takes up 18/24 hours in the day. The ready of the time can be put to good use washing and sterilising bottles 😂
Depending on how regularly your baby wakes in the night and whether they actually want hot milk or are happy with room temperature, you can use the pre-made cartons of formula without heating.
From memory, the ideal temperature to kill bacteria but not damage the nutrients in formula is 70degrees. Maybe work out the right quantity of fresh boiled water and refrigerated sterile water to achieve this, add enough to the bottle so as to dissolve the formula and then top up with the refrigerated sterile water so that the temperature is right?
It is all unnecessarily complicated IMO - I couldn't breast feed and was gutted. I really felt like the world was punishing me with the stupid formula making instructions!

We use the flask method at night. We've bought an expensive flask that keeps it warmer for longer.

Otherwise, you could boil the kettle (don't put the whole 1l in), pour it into the bottle then run the bottle under the tap to cool it down slightly. The bottles must be fine to heat to 100 degrees because they get steam sterilized.

Otherwise, get a perfect prep. I don't know anyone who FFs who doesn't have one.

Omg this does make things simpler (not necessarily for night time feeds but for day time ones when Ds usually happily waits for his milk to warm up.)

Why did I think you can't keep it in the fridge for more than 2h?

The rules dont make sense. Also there are different rules depending on which country you live in, which made me even more dubious tbh.

You need to apply common sense, but thats about it.

Why don't you just get a better kettle and boil less water? You don't need a litre for a bottle. Kettle should boil a 150ml in less than 60 secs.

@LonglegsMumtheBlacksmith

I think the problem is that if you follow all of the instructions on the back of a tin of formula you basically end up stuck in a cycle of boiling, cooling, mixing etc that takes up 18/24 hours in the day. The ready of the time can be put to good use washing and sterilising bottles 😂 Depending on how regularly your baby wakes in the night and whether they actually want hot milk or are happy with room temperature, you can use the pre-made cartons of formula without heating. From memory, the ideal temperature to kill bacteria but not damage the nutrients in formula is 70degrees. Maybe work out the right quantity of fresh boiled water and refrigerated sterile water to achieve this, add enough to the bottle so as to dissolve the formula and then top up with the refrigerated sterile water so that the temperature is right? It is all unnecessarily complicated IMO - I couldn't breast feed and was gutted. I really felt like the world was punishing me with the stupid formula making instructions!

Good idea (working out proportions to achieve 70 degrees). Thanks!!

@JustWonderingIfYou

Why don't you just get a better kettle and boil less water? You don't need a litre for a bottle. Kettle should boil a 150ml in less than 60 secs.

Haha yes the instructions say you should boil at least one litre. I assume it's to avoid lime scale from the bottom of the kettle.

Or just breastfeed until you night wean. It's much easier especially if you are worried about nutritional content being damaged by boiling water/reheating etc.

You could actually night wean now, I did it at 7/8 months and it was really easy, took 2/3 nights to go from 3/4 feeds to 0.

@Etherealhedgehog

Ps also the cold water you top up with doesn't have to be boiled. It's a common misconception that bottles need to be made with sterile water - not so. The hot water is to kill any bugs in the powder, as long as that's done you can top up with regular water from the tap. Lots of people don't seem to understand this and make bottles with cold, previously boiled water, which achieves nothing, might as well make them with water straight from the tap

Yes I know. But it's easy enough to keep a flask of boiled water in the fridge so I don't mind that.

Haha yes the instructions say you should boil at least one litre

These instructions sound like they're written for people who cannot think for themselves. Which they probably are. To avoid legal action being taken against them.

@JustWonderingIfYou

Or just breastfeed until you night wean. It's much easier especially if you are worried about nutritional content being damaged by boiling water/reheating etc.

You could actually night wean now, I did it at 7/8 months and it was really easy, took 2/3 nights to go from 3/4 feeds to 0.

How do you do that? He only wakes once or twice a night so I don't mind so much. I've also stopped giving him formula in the night after bf of he doesn't cry but he's starting to fall off his centile line so am thinking of starting again. (He doesn't have much formula in the day but in the night he'll happily have it even after breastfeeding)

Why dont you just do what your doing but add more of the hot water if ut has cooled down.

If it was me though, I would just make up bottles, stick them in the fridge and heat them in the microwave. I used to do that with my first and second because i used coleif drops in their bottles.

Your options are:
-use ready made milk overnight
-buy a perfect prep machine
-make up several bottles before going to bed, chill them quickly (I used to stand them in a bowl of ice and water), put in the back of the fridge and use within 24 hours. When ready to use just put in the microwave for a minute or two to take the chill off then.
All of the above literally take just a couple of minutes, I have done all of the above over the years.

We used ready made and DC drank it cold or room temperature whichever it happened to be.

Maybe mine were unusually flexible (ha on this single issue maybe!) but I found that often people were warming on the assumption that that is the right thing to do rather than necessity so do remember that cold milk won’t harm your baby and give that a go.

@AliveAndSleeping

So everyone just uses boiling hot water straight from the kettle to make formula rather than letting it cool for anytime as recommended?

No you shouldn't do this as it needs to be within a certain range- too cold and it doesn't kill the bacteria, too hot and it destroys some of the nutritional value, so you are correct in one of your previous replies. I'm also on the perfect prep advice!

Ah ok. Thanks I guess...

The truth is I'm not comfortable with the idea of not following the rules. I know the risk is small but I was hoping there is a way that I could minimise that risk by following the instructions while still retaining a sense of sanity and convenience (and not making him cry for ages for his bottle) though maybe now that he's not a newborn anymore it's not that important anymore. I think I'll try to trust the NHS website and store formula in the fridge even if it's longer than 2h.

Does anyone else use mam bottles? How long do you heat the milk in the microwave to get it quite warm (warmer than room temperature. He rejects it otherwise).

Yes, that's my understanding. I should probably look into the perfect prep machine. My midwife said she wouldn't recommend it as it hasn't been extensively tested so the NHS can't recommend it (though it might be perfectly fine).