Help breaking the feeding to sleep habit

[Blemmerz]

Since she was born I have been breastfeeding our 4 month old on demand. When she needs to sleep, she feeds and drifts off and then I put her down to sleep. We're now trying to break that habit because she often spends hours on the boob just suckling for comfort but if I try to take her off before she's ready she'll be fully awake again and we'll have to start the process over which is exhausting. She's also been very reluctant to nap at all recently which I'm putting down to the 4 month sleep regression, but it means she's overtired all the time at the moment which is exhausting. We've started to try the cry it out method over the past couple of days to try and break the habit and get her to self soothe but it's been very hit and miss and more often than not she gets herself really worked up and just ends up more overtired and I end up feeding her just to calm her down again.
Has anyone been in the same boat and if so, what helped you? I'm feeling like I'm doing everything wrong and I'm going to end up with a very difficult child.

Please don’t use cry it out on a 4-month old. Your DD is still a tiny baby and of course she wants to be held. I genuinely don’t understand how you could leave such a young baby to cry by herself. There’s a time for sleep training and night weaning (I’ve just done both with my 9-month old), but 4-months just isn’t it

And if it helps, I broke all the ‘rules’ with DD - fed to sleep for all naps and night wakes, did every nap as a contact nap, co-slept, never left her to cry, etc….. everything you’re not supposed to do as it creates ‘bad habits’. I did this for 9-months and yes, it was exhausting, but it was what she needed. Then, when I felt she was ready, I night weaned her - it took one night, just a few tears, and she now sleeps through for 11 hours, and goes down in her cot awake for all naps and night sleep. She adapted so quickly because she was ready, and the months I had spent responding to her needs made her confident and feeling safe. I do believe in sleep training, but only after you have solid foundations of parental attachment. Otherwise I think it’s cruel. There are no such things as bad habits and you cannot spoil a baby that young. So stop worrying about the future and enjoy all the snuggles and feeding to sleep now - you can establish independent sleep at a more appropriate age, and your DD will respond better as a result

I swapped for rocking at times and that helped (obviously is something else you're required for but DH could also do that so it helped). DD also had a dummy that helped in combination with the above. I'd wait until 6 months for anything further than that and then tried to figure out wake windows so she wasn't over/under tired for naps/bedtime which helped too.

4 month old babies need alot of milk for the massive amount of growing they are about to do. They do this by being at the breast alot, prompting the mothers body to make more milk for them.
You are not doing anything wrong, you and your baby are behaving normally. Of course other people's babies will be 'easier', buy you are not failing. ( My first was the Queen of night feeds, she fed and fed and fed. Now she's an independent, smart 8 year old who almost never sleeps less than a straight 10 1/2 hours).

I've coslept, contact napped and fed to sleep for nearly every sleep my 9 month old has had. We are just starting to use rocking patting and a dummy for some sleeps now. Sleep is developmental and it will come when your baby is ready. I'd love my bed back but I'm not going to upset my still very small child over it yet. Ask me again in another few months and I might be ready, and she might be ready which is more the point.

Maybe try reading the gentle sleep book by Sarah ockwell.

4 months is too young for any kind of sleep training and especially for cry it out. You can’t teach her to self soothe; it’s a developmental milestone, not a taught skill. All you can do is leave a very young baby in distress.

Google ‘habit stacking’ for advice on a gentle way to move on from feeding to sleep, but bear in mind that your baby is still incredibly young and may simply not be ready to fall asleep another way yet. My son eventually grow out of feeding to sleep at around 9 months; before then, trying to stop would only have upset him and made bedtimes worse.

Agree 4 months is too early for CIO and I say that as someone who did the Ferber method with my 7 month old (who is now a 16 month old who generally sleeps 10-11 hours a night )

There really is no one size fits all, but honestly my view is that you should just lean into anything that gets them to sleep for the first six months and then accept one bad week when you’re breaking the habit. Got to be better than months of hell. We didn’t feed to sleep but we did rock to sleep until the 7 month mark. I know it feels like it but it doesn’t last forever, honest.

We used the pantly pull off method (not as dodgy as it sounds) and it really helped them to learn to self soothe. Think they were a little over 4 months but you could start some of the steps towards that. I still see their little dream sucking occasionally if I spot them asleep somewhere.

Your baby is too young to be able to self soothe. You are just distressing them further by leaving them to cry and teaching them that they are alone and nobody is found to comfort them when they’re upset.

We’re all exhausted, but that’s part and parcel of being a parent. You signed up for it. You can’t now neglect your baby because you’re tired.

If you teach your baby that you won’t attend to their every need, then yes, you will end up with a very difficult child.

Research has proven that attending to a baby’s every need creates happy, secure toddlers that feel safe wandering off and exploring because they know you’ll still be there for them.

If you leave your baby to cry and teach them you won’t even be there when they’re distressed, you are going to create a toddler that won’t want to leave you alone for fear you won’t be there if they do.

What your are experiencing is normal. Breastfeeding isn't just for nutrition; it's a super power! Please don't think that feeding her to sleep is wrong.
At this young age she does not have the level of cognition for sleep training to work.

@colourfulpuddles
Woah.
I am very well aware what I signed up for and am just trying to navigate a very difficult situation. This is my second child so it's not feasible for me to try to feed her to sleep when she needs to nap and leave my 4 year old by himself for hours on end. I have since decided not to pursue cry it out, but when we tried it she was never left for long periods so please don't suggest that I am 'neglecting' her because you are so far off the mark. I can deal with not getting enough sleep, what I can't deal with is not being able to spend any time with my son or even get chores done because my baby is so tired but won't sleep and is on the boob for hours to soothe herself.

@Cattitudes I haven't heard of this, do you have any more info?

Thank you all for your advice, I've decided not to go ahead with CIO. It's difficult as she's our second child so my 4 year old doesn't get much of my time
at the moment with all of this going on. Hopefully it all settles down soon.

I don’t have any advice OP as I bottle feed and have a very settled baby. I just didn’t want to read those very judgmental posts and ignore the attitude of some of those posters. I suggest you ignore them - they sound like very over the top, sanctimonious parents and are best left to preach to no one!

@elenacampana yes! thank you! It's awful because if I was in a more fragile state, words like that could be really damaging.

@Blemmerz

Glad to be supportive OP. That’s what this site is supposed to be all about. It’s a shame the keyboard warriors forget that!

@colourfulpuddles

Your baby is too young to be able to self soothe. You are just distressing them further by leaving them to cry and teaching them that they are alone and nobody is found to comfort them when they’re upset.

We’re all exhausted, but that’s part and parcel of being a parent. You signed up for it. You can’t now neglect your baby because you’re tired.

If you teach your baby that you won’t attend to their every need, then yes, you will end up with a very difficult child.

Research has proven that attending to a baby’s every need creates happy, secure toddlers that feel safe wandering off and exploring because they know you’ll still be there for them.

If you leave your baby to cry and teach them you won’t even be there when they’re distressed, you are going to create a toddler that won’t want to leave you alone for fear you won’t be there if they do.

You’re presenting theories as facts. We all have different ways of responding to the needs of our little ones and they don’t have to be the same as yours to be perfectly okay.

[quote Blemmerz]@Cattitudes I haven't heard of this, do you have any more info?[/quote]
<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?q=mysleepingbaby.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/No-Cry-Sleep-Training-Pantley-Pull-Off-Transcripts.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwism-_brYf1AhVzQUEAHTgcCykQFnoECAoQAg&usg=AOvVaw0tw2tMVz9CdZpVlI0xFgP0" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">This outlines the method, it was described in The no cry sleep solution book - although that technique was the main point of the book so I wouldn't necessarily buy it just for that.

You feed until the baby is nearly asleep then detach and as she tries to latch back on, put your finger firmly (but not hurting obv) under her chin, if she cries feed her again until she is nearly asleep then repeat the finger under the chin. Over time they start to just continue to look as if they are feeding but nearly asleep but without the breast. They sort of look as if they are very gently smacking their lips together.

We just did it in the evening when initially settling them. Once we were happy that they could self soothe then dh had about a week of settling them in the evening (probably around 7- 8 months) so they were settling with no milk though he was there and would put his finger under their chin. If they got upset I fed them. I won't say there were absolutely no tears but it felt much gentler. As they get better at the self soothing they start to use it when they stir in their sleep which reduces the night waking. At 4 months you can start practicing the detach and finger under the chin. I think they said not to do before 12 weeks, but it was a long time ago (all in secondary school now), so can't quite remember. It is not a quick method, you are probably measuring in weeks and months rather than days, but it means that you feel you have an exit strategy. You could start doing it now, among any other strategies and see if it helps.

@elenacampana “we all have different ways of responding to the needs of our little ones”…. except the OP wasn’t responding to the needs of her little one. She was leaving her to cry, on her own, at 4 months old. That’s not “perfectly okay”. That’s the very furthest thing from “perfectly okay”. And I don’t think there’s anything sanctimonious about refusing to leave a tiny baby alone to cry.

@canyoutoleratethis

She was trying out new things to give her child a chance of a good night’s sleep, she’s since decided not to try it anymore. That is perfectly and absolutely okay. You lot jumped on her and it was wrong, but that’s what people do online because the villagers with the pictchforks mentality lives on in Mumsnet Land. Doubt you’d do the same thing to someone in person.

There’s nothing sanctimonious about parenting however you want. It is sanctimonious when you bang on about your views to someone who’s just looking for some advice.

Actually no, I did not jump on anyone. My two initial posts were measured and respectful. I simply pointed out that leaving such a small baby to cry on their own wasn’t the right thing to do. I also gave my experience and encouraged the OP not to worry as that there were no such things as bad habits. I also made clear that sleep training can help when OP’s baby is older. There were no pitchforks, no aggression, just a very clear line being drawn. And yes, I would tell anyone in the ‘real world’ the same. Whereas I’m struggling to see what actual advice you have offered, apart from pointing out that your baby slept fine so you have zero experience of the issue. I stand by my posts and will not be made to feel like I have inappropriately ganged up on anyone.

@canyoutoleratethis

Actually no, I did not jump on anyone. My two initial posts were measured and respectful. I simply pointed out that leaving such a small baby to cry on their own wasn’t the right thing to do. I also gave my experience and encouraged the OP not to worry as that there were no such things as bad habits. I also made clear that sleep training can help when OP’s baby is older. There were no pitchforks, no aggression, just a very clear line being drawn. And yes, I would tell anyone in the ‘real world’ the same. Whereas I’m struggling to see what actual advice you have offered, apart from pointing out that your baby slept fine so you have zero experience of the issue. I stand by my posts and will not be made to feel like I have inappropriately ganged up on anyone.

Don’t be made to feel like you’ve inappropriately hanged up up anyone then 🤷‍♀️… be more convincing if you stopped sending lengthy replies to an initial comment that wasn’t particularly about you.

*ganged