Any pro breastfeeders in the house?

[Kanfuzed123]

I breastfed my first with a great amount of difficulty (low birth weight, un diagnosed tongue tie, stagnant weight gain, tongue tie reattachment etc) and I’ve just had my second and I’ve forgotten so much. Tried to get through to breastfeeding helpline and LL but they were all busy, posted on a few Fb BF groups but for some reason posts haven’t been approved.

Baby is day 5, nappies have changed colour and we’re having lots of wets and dirty nappies, 5.7% weight loss and no jaundice. Baby feeds so frequently though at least 14 times a day relatively settled in between except in the evening around 9pm and then 1am and then he is SO distressed, crying and sobbing wanting to latch but pulling off crying and getting so cross. Is this normal? I can’t remember if my first did this, I don’t think so? How can I latch him when he’s like this? I’ve taken to 1/2 oz / oz of expressed milk / formula to calm him, but even then he’s so worked up. It often happens mid feed too and I can tell there is milk there. Evening he’ll feed back to back to, 15/ 20 mins between feeds sometimes. My bum is numb!

Baby had a tongue tie and was revised day 3, she gave me some great latch tips so it’s not sore anymore except for the first 10 secs. Worried it could be a sign of ineffective transfer of milk, hence wanting to feed so much?

Any help tips or suggestions would be fab!

I did ask the CMW who did the 5 day check but she said she wasn’t sure but not to worry as weight loss was minimal and nappies are good.

At day 5 I would say you're in the middle of cluster feeding and also the witching hour...which actually lasts several hours and typically happens in the evenings/ night. But all totally normal. It is an important process to help stimulate your supply in the early days.
And the grumpy feeding at that time is normal too; your flow of milk is slower in the evening and can make them impatient. Also normal. If all is well during the day I wouldn't get too worried about this.

I would avoid supplementing too much, as the best way to stimulate your supply is to just feed feed feed as much as you can... although having said that, an ounce or so every evening probably won't make too much difference.

From what you say about nappies and weight it sounds like your baby is doing great though, so well done!

It’s the witching hour! I used to find that so hard. Infact I started giving DC a bottle at that time because my nipples just couldn’t handle the constant on and off. DH used it as a nice bonding time - he’d give the bottle and get baby ready for bed whilst I expressed. Not saying that will work for everyone, but it’s how I dealt with that evening period when they’re very hard to settle.

Oh but for reference, I'm not a BF professional... just a mother who has come up against an inordinate amount of stumbling blocks in the early days myself, so have joined every breastfeeding group in existence, read every book around, and followed every IBCLC I could find on instagram... has made me somewhat of an enthusiast
But maybe some lactation consultants will be along!

It’s so tough isn’t it! Because he’s hungry, there’s milk there but he won’t latch he just cries and acts so mad so gets himself worked up more and more. Not sure how to feed through it when he won’t latch or feed in the first place 😅😭

Sounds normal to me (bf two babies and both were like this). Just feed feed feed and your supply will soon catch up x

Just seen your latest post, if he's getting really worked up try latching on standing up! Seriously it can make them calm down and the movement of standing / rocking at the same time chills them out. Also try feeding at the very first sign of hunger (licking lips / sticking tounge out, trying to eat hands) before they cry and you'll have more success getting them latched while calm

There’s some great advice above, don’t forget to keep yourself fed and hydrated. The early days are so challenging and sounds like you are doing great!

Have breastfed two - one with great difficulty, one easily.
What you’re describing sounds normal to me.

Definitely not a pro but I'm 3 weeks into breastfeeding now and definitely experienced this too! The cluster feeding days were HARD but it truly does get easier, you're doing a great job

You could also try a dummy. Sometimes believe it or not they need a comfort suck and actually get annoyed when there’s milk there, especially if you have a strong letdown.

Normal definitely. Will he suck your finger if you put it in pad up and rub the roof of his mouth. Sucking produces cholecystokinin which makes babies feel full briefly so the trick is to get them sucking on your finger (dip it in EBM if necessary) then slip finger out and latch straight away. Can take a couple of attempts but usually works.

Just to second that feeding even before they cry in the key; as soon as they search for the breast. (yes, you will be saying FFS, not again!). A trick I used with mine was to express a little a first and wipe the milk over my nipple and add a drop to their mouth. It sometimes broke the cycle of crying as they thought "ah, milk!" and I got them latched on.

The biggest problem for me was the firehose effect with one boob - the baby would struggle to feed when I cradled them, but we both found it easier lying down in bed, either with them on top or at the side.

I've fed two and this also sounds normal to me. Baby is cluster feeding to build up your supply-completely normal in the early days.

Even the 14 feeds a day? All the stuff says between 8/12 feeds a day?

Any tips for the numb bum 😂? X

Yeah I'd be doing as many as 16 feeds a day. My baby fed on average every 1-1.5hrs

@Inthesky42

Yeah I'd be doing as many as 16 feeds a day. My baby fed on average every 1-1.5hrs

Was this just early doors? I’m just super cautious as I struggled so so much with my first, was just problem after problem xx

@TheABC

Just to second that feeding even before they cry in the key; as soon as they search for the breast. (yes, you will be saying FFS, not again!). A trick I used with mine was to express a little a first and wipe the milk over my nipple and add a drop to their mouth. It sometimes broke the cycle of crying as they thought "ah, milk!" and I got them latched on.

The biggest problem for me was the firehose effect with one boob - the baby would struggle to feed when I cradled them, but we both found it easier lying down in bed, either with them on top or at the side.

It could be that you know as he’s struggling most on ol’ righty which always produced more with DD. We’ve only got the cradle position down atm, the lady who did his TT really helped out with that one. He’s still a bit too scrunchy to try the other ones out. I could only feed DD reclined/ laid back nursing style xx

I've fed 5 and the cluster feeding is normal. I felt like I permanently had my boob out in the evening. It's like they're getting over the shock of the birth and ramp up the seeking the breast. Fir the numb bum you could try sitting on a blow up swim ring. I found it grear with my 1st, especially after an epesiotomy. Be warned, you plateau and just relax thinking they're in a routine and they get unsettled again and demand ramps up again at about 6 weeks and 3 months. At least that was my experience.

@kanfuzed123 yes it did get better, though my babies were both more frequent feeders than "average" as they both suffered from reflux so fed little and often. Currently i feed DD4mo every 2hrs in the day and 3x overnight, it'll probably stay that way until we wean and she starts dropping feeds for real food x

I'm not an expert but have fed my three to 18m, and then 2yrs 7m for two and three. I used to find that the baby needed more winding, as it would build up if not done properly and then he would be uncomfortable all evening. We would have the witching hours from 7-12 most evenings, but a thorough winding did help. When they're in pain from it, they want to suck, but this makes it worse. When he got to about three months and was bigger, it became less of an issue.

Good luck-you're doing a fab job!

Just to echo what others have said this sounds normal behaviour for newborn in the first few weeks. Lots of wet and dirty nappies is key so sounds like it's going well and baby is getting enough. Try not to supplement with formula. Also try skin to skin to help calm baby.

My boy fed for about 90% of the day (and allll night) for the first month. It was exhausting. He had awful colic too. I found it got easier every four weeks ish, let your baby lead. Keep fed and watered and for the witching hour try a good sling/carrier plus fresh air, or in the carrier bouncing on an exercise ball. Not for everyone but I introduced a dummy and for the few months he’d take it it was just amazing. He was loads more settled and slept so much better (this was around the 6-7 week mark though).

It gets better more quickly than you can imagine right now x

@Inthesky42

Just seen your latest post, if he's getting really worked up try latching on standing up! Seriously it can make them calm down and the movement of standing / rocking at the same time chills them out. Also try feeding at the very first sign of hunger (licking lips / sticking tounge out, trying to eat hands) before they cry and you'll have more success getting them latched while calm

This!

I got a caboo sling, learnt to feed in the sling and my son would feed and sleep at the same time! I had the sling from day 1 but for some reason just thought feeding in a sling would be impossible so put it off for weeks and weeks! I’m a fool because it would’ve completely change my life in those early days. I too had a very unsettled newborn who was rooting for boob but then once on the boob would pull off and cry and repeat. Best of luck xxxx

My LO fed nearly constantly in the beginning! It settles down a lot, especially when you hit 6 weeks and your supply is established. It might be worth trying some breast compressions. DD would feed, trigger the initial letdown but then had to suck to get more out and would get quite upset sometimes. The breast compressions release more without them sucking which can encourage them keep going/calm them down. Topping up can be a slippery slope very quickly for your supply, as feeding at the breast is what tells your body how much to produce so I would try and hold off until at least 6 weeks. A bottle is often more milk than would be taken in breastfeeding naturally and can stretch their little tummies. Trying to latch them on while rocking can also calm baby as it helps them to regulate their vestibular system and coordinate the swallow response - there was an interesting paper on it a while ago and it worked wonders with my LO. She is 8 months now and I’m still breastfeeding, it goes so fast! It may seem harder than formula for the first 6 weeks but once it was established I loved being able to go out of the house with no bottles just my boobs! So much easier than sterilising etc too. You’re doing amazingly!

Reverse pressure softening can make it easier to latch. Long phrase but very easy to do - see kellymom.com/bf/concerns/mother/rev_pressure_soft_cotterman/ by an lll leader who has an evidence based site.

Really worked for me with dd2. Not an hcp or expert.

Side lying is very good if you have a powerful flow as baby can control flow better and it’s also good for skin to skin. Try this position at times of the day when baby more chilled so you can both get used to it.

Loads of cluster feeding is normal and good. Like pp have said I wouldn’t wait until baby rooting / crying in the evening to offer but would offer milk pre-emptively, like you would offer a toddler a snack before they start griping!!