4 year old hitting at school

[sheerjewl]

Our 4 (5 in February) son has started school this year. He has struggled with the structure change however seems to be improving his behaviour in class. However on the odd occasion he is hitting other children - once in the classroom and once on the playground. He is on a star chart.

This is a reaction to something they have done.

1. The person didn't use his manners when asking to move
2. The person didn't want to play the game my son wanted to play

There is a lot of hitting going on between boys. My son has also been pushed. However, the school are telling me my son is a bit excessive with it and shows aggressive behaviour (he isn't large and wouldn't and hasn't hurt anyone as I have checked with the parents involved)

I know his reactions are not acceptable. We are trying our hardest at home but feel the school have a consequence nature which doesn't necessarily work with him.

I think a lot of it is immaturity as he still struggles to talk about his feelings and has toddler like tantrums which I have noticed his peers don't have and they can talk about things that have happened better.

All in all he is a really good boy, great with his school work and just a bit misunderstood

He has a younger brother at home and their relationship can be volatile although he has been a lot better and no so reactive with him.

Just wondering if anyone else has been through this and has any advice at all please?
I'm hoping he grows out of it but it's just if the school will wait that long.

What are the consequences at home if he is volatile with his brother?
A subtle way to help address this might be with books. My lo is really receptive to reading and talking about the stories. She loved Ravi's Roar recently about a boy who gets frustrated and angry because he is smaller than this siblings and turns into a tiger.

We ok the feeling (for example frustrated because his brother has wrecked his game for example) but tell him the behaviour is not ok and remove him from the situation. Then later we discuss how he could better handle it.

Difficulty with school is, we are not there, so do not know the whole scenario. Like the teachers really as they don't see the whole thing play out all the time. If we were there we could discuss with him what's best to do next time etc but they don't do that. They don't seem to look into why he has done it. Just consequence it.

Well that's not a consequence is it? You're just discussing his feelings and the hitting. There is no negative occurrence for him as a result of him hitting someone.

He's 5. I'm not talking about severe punishment here but there needs to be a consequence for his actions more than having a discussion about it!

@Wellarentyouacleverdick

Well that's not a consequence is it? You're just discussing his feelings and the hitting. There is no negative occurrence for him as a result of him hitting someone.

He's 5. I'm not talking about severe punishment here but there needs to be a consequence for his actions more than having a discussion about it!

Yeah, this. It sounds like there are no bad consequences for hitting, he's way too old for that to be acceptable.

Your son hit a child because they didn’t want to play the same game and you think the teachers need to discuss why he has done it? Sounds like your son needs very clear boundaries and rules, this is not acceptable behaviour.

The only time a child hit my child at primary school, it was a child with learning difficulties and SEN.

Also, teachers just do not have the time with thirty children to a class, to sit and discuss feelings and analyse squabbles between two five year olds. There is a no violence rule in school, so he hits then in school there will be consequences. They don't tolerate it. The sooner he learns that the better really, for his sake.

OP you sound like you have an issue with consequences, is that right? The thing is schools can’t spend ages discussing, validating feelings and having little chats later. They expect children to observe the rules, and they give consequences when rules are broken.
Did he go to nursery?

We do consequence. As I said, we remove him from the situation, so he doesn't get to play anymore for example. Toys taken away from him if it's over a toy. It depends on the situation.
Or regards the school situation, he got sent to his room with no playtime and only came down for dinner then back up again.
We also have a reward chart at home so any hitting and he doesn't get his star for the day.
So we do consequence. And then obviously there's time to reflect which is important for him to learn.

There's 16 in his class not 30 just for clarification.

I don't want the school to sit and discuss it all the time but impulse control is something that comes with age... so yes it is serious but I would also expect them to help and work with us through it.
He has had a boy push him over and stamp on his foot (I found this out when he said his foot was hurting in the shower). He also had a sticker the other day because the same boy pushed him but my son was "brave"
I also know of children biting.
When I say hit, he's not whacking them. It's like a shove, not that it makes it any better as it's still a reaction.
My point is, he isn't the only one.

I appreciate all the comments from a different perspective though.

Out of interest, if it was labelled as ADHD, how would it be treated differently? Does anyone know?

Sorry, he did go nursery from age of 1. No hitting there.

OP, I’m on the other side of this, my child is the one getting hit for no reason and I’m thoroughly sick of it. Nip it in the bud.

Try not to worry OP, he is only 4 and you are right impulse control develops with age. We have been in your shoes and there will always be those waiting to judge and criticise. I would try to get him to recognise the build up of feeling frustrated/ cross and coach him with how to handle differently, e.g move himself away etc . We used role play for this, action man figures etc. keep praising all the positives , he will get there. X

Also practice breathing techniques, Google hot choc breathing technique, practice when he is calm, I.e going to bed and then talk to him about practicing at school when he feels cross/ frustrated.

What do you mean if it was labelled as ADHD? His hitting? Or him?

Children or their specific behaviour aren't/isn't labelled as ADHD, they go through a lengthy and thorough (and very time consuming) diagnostic process and, if they're found to have it, are diagnosed. And children with ADHD still aren't allowed to hurt other children in school and will still receive appropriate consequences if they do! They may receive extra support to prevent them from doing so, it depends on what their needs are.

If you have concerns about ADHD, at 4, the best place to start is your GP. Ask for a referral.
You will need more ground than him hitting in school though. School can also refer via CAMHS after age 5.

It sounds like, so far, possibly he's struggling to cope with the change between nursery and school. Even with 16 in a class the teacher isn't going to be able to get into every nook and cranny of the children's interactions, especially in reception.

Of course he won't be the only one being a bit rough and tumble. They're very little. But if school have raised it to you then it's more than a typical bit of snatching or shoving and you need to nip it in the bud. Consistent and firm consequences for being violent.

By all means dig down and look at the behaviour causing the reaction to help and prevent it from happening again and share with school if you can spot triggers for it.

@fruitypancake thank you for the constructive help - I will try this with him.

@Wellarentyouacleverdick he is definitely struggling with the enormous structure strange from his mainly outdoor nursery, to sitting in class most the day. He has always been very active so probably has a lot of energy. If he is punished by not being allowed playtime or swimming, my fear is that he is not getting rid of that energy.
However in class he has improved greatly and is very bright.

We have been called because it has happened twice in one week. These are isolated instances and therefore I would say we are trying to "nip it in the bud"
He was not allowed to go to a birthday party because of it either

I do not believe he has ADHD although I have looked into this. However there are numerous other disorders that people do not talk about. This is labelled as behaviour but is impulsive behaviour and not just random "violence" as you put it. I feel if it was labelled, he would get more support at school as they would see it as he has an actual issue...The brain develops so differently for every child. My son cannot talk about his emotions and how he feels well, therefore acting in unsuitable ways. Other children will feel like this and just cry all day. They are the same emotion but dealt with differently. Both need support.

I am in no way saying what he does is right, as it isn't. But he needs support to get through this. And as it is mainly at school (he is very rarely boisterous at home now with his brother and uses his words), the support needs to be when it happens at school too as talking through it hours after the event sometimes is not the most effective. I'm not saying lengthy conversations but surely not shouting at him and punishing without running through what's actually happened and why he has done it.

Very interesting reading of opinions though.

Would be interested to hear how others would "punish" if you got called in to say your child had pushed a child. What would your reaction be?

I wouldn't punish him at all, the school will have already put any sanctions in place. I would just continue to role play, talk about what he could have done to handle situation better as you say

Even if he has any sort of 'disorder' (are you thinking autism etc?) then it takes a long time to get diagnosed unless you go private (around 2k). Even private clinics have a wait at the moment due to covid.

What makes you think he has SEN? Does he show other concerning behaviours or have other difficulties? Again if this is your concern start with your GP and get the ball rolling and also speak to the school SENCo about your concerns. They will need more than 'he finds it hard to control impulses and hits out' at 4 years old. Lots of 4 year olds find this tough.

If he has SEN, or suspected SEN, then prior to diagnosis the school can put him on the SEN register and begin additional support/plans etc. You can also apply for something with or without a diagnosis called an EHCP if the school can't meet his needs from their normal SEN budget but you need lots and lots of evidence for this (I know, my 5 year old child has one). None of this is quick, and putting a label/diagnosis on his behaviour won't be a fix anyway. If there is something underlying then knowing will help because you can tailor support and start to prevent incidences but they still won't (or shouldn't) allow him to hurt others without consequence.

@fruitypancake thank you

@Wellarentyouacleverdick I think you are missing my point completely as I have said he doesn't have any of the well known disorders. But thank you for your time in coming back to me. I would still be interested to know how you would punish or consequence the fact he had done what he did at school, as you haven't answered that.

I would be consistent with school if my child was hitting there. So they've been reprimanded at school for something really unacceptable means they lose a privilege or treat at home.

There's no point in yelling or chastising because the moment has passed (and shouting etc doesn't get you anywhere anyway). I would explain to my child that I'm extremely disappointed in their behaviour, that it's unacceptable and as such they lose X. It needs to be something quite immediate because he's little, so if he hits on a Monday there's no point in banning something the following Saturday. Too long has passed. Something that's going to have an impact on Monday evening.

I would be interested to know what leads you to think your child has any sort of SEN, because you haven't answered that?

So that's basically what we did/do.

I haven't said he has a SEN. I've said he has an issue with impulse control which can be a disorder. Although at the moment I don't believe it is but if things don't improve with age and our help, is something that I will be looking further.

@sheerjewl hi, a few years has passed- how is he doing now? Was there anything you did that stoop this behaviour? Thanks

My DS also had to put up with a hitter in reception and the parents didn’t nip it in the bud, they also thought the right approach was discussing his feelings and not giving any real consequences. The hitter is now a 7 year old who still lashes out if other kids don’t want to do what he tells them to and he is generally avoided by most other kids and not invited to play dates/parties etc.

@Lykke1000 sorry I have only just seen this

He is much better now.... he has since been diagnosed with autism and we are going through an ADHD assessment currently

The hitting gradually subsided where it was happening a lot less. I think it helped that the school started to be more aware of his triggers etc I also think age has helped too.

I've just looked back at the timeline.

One massive change we made was taking him out of the school he was in at the time of posting.
We were not happy with the school he was at and how they were treating him.

He went to a different school and that was a massive gamechanger for us. Far more nurturing.

Hi how is your son doing now? My daughter has started school yesterday went in crying saying she didn't want to go. She bit a girl in the toilet and bit another girl today. I am very very sad. She would never bite at home. Please give advice if you can. She has attacked another child before. I can't understand why she is behaving like this I reprimand when needed I am embarrassed by her behaviour. When she is at home she is utterly adorable very kind calm and behaves very well. When out of home she seems to become anxious.

Hey sorry I have just seen this

My son is doing great thank you. He has settled at school now.

When you say started school if you mean first day then I would say starting school can bring on so many anxieties and worries and just a massive thing for some children.

At the point she is doing those things she is in her fright or flight response.

There will ALWAYS be a reason why she bit... some trigger or something. And it's trying to get to the bottom of those reasons which is difficult.

I'm sorry you're going through this. It's so tough for both of you.