At breaking point with 5 year old DS

[uhohspaghettiohh]

Please help, I'm losing the will to live.

We have a 5 year old DS and one year old DD. DS, until a year or so ago, was always my shadow and a huge mummy's boy. Pregnancy with DD hard, I was poorly and in and out of hospital - so DH did more with him. As a consequence, they got closer, which has been lovely, and had been a long time coming.

But now, DS hates me, says some really awful things to me. He screams, shouts, doesn't listen. It is getting worse. He is now screaming at DH, an example was this morning, his sister had been poorly so I bought her down last night, he had a car track out, so we put it away so DD didn't break it. Well, this morning, he SCREAMED the place down because it wasn't out, literally whaling. Could hear DH pleading with him to be quiet as DD had been up in the night and not slept etc.

He doesn't listen, you say don't do something, and he does it. When you want him to follow a command or eat his tea he will make nonsense up on the spot by saying 'just let me do this' 'just let me say this'.

Grandparents are now noticing. School have no issues or concerns. He hates me, he screams if I try and put him to bed. When I say no to something he says he will go and tell daddy. He tells me to stop talking. He was poorly a few weeks ago and he wouldn't have me anywhere near him, I went to touch his forehead to feel if he was hot and he went mad.

I spend time with him, we go on days out, we do things together. He is slightly better when we are alone but he still doesn't listen and does what he wants to do, even if it's dangerous like
walking along a busy road.

I feel so low. We are terrified of him. The other morning DH was putting his onesie on him, helping with his sleeves, because DH wasn't quick enough he started shouting. DH physically recoiled as he was scared! Things like pushing him in on his chair at the table, I didn't push him in enough, so he went mad, pushed him in further - too close to the table! So pulled him out and boom - apocalypse!

He's rough with his sister, you can see him purposefully stand on her feet or hands. Don't get me wrong, he can be nice with her and hugs / kisses her. But other times it's just chaos.

My DH and I preach from the same sheet, I might be a little more strict with him but that's mainly due to the way he talks to me. I ignore but he goes further.

I'm sorry for the essay - we just don't know what to do!

Just to say re the books I mentioned, more than half of the 123 book is about encouraging and rewarding good behaviour. It's honestly a good book.

Sounds like he was terrified of losing you while you were ill, and then you had dd so your attention was half directed elsewhere and now he's both afraid of losing you again and horrified that he actually has maybe. He can't express any of that so is just acting like a frightened animal with no trust in anyone - aggressive.

This will take time to work through but hopefully you can do it.

His behaviour is expressing feelings - you need to address the feelings driving it all in order to be able to address the behaviour. And he needs to feel secure that he can express his feelings without frightening you, that you are in charge and in control, that he is in a safe space with you even when his emotions and behaviours are out of control. He is clearly finding a lot of things anxious and scary, and will be finding his emotions and actions scary, he needs to know that you are not scared and can be a steady rock for him even at his worst. So you have very firm boundaries that you always maintain, and natural consequences for bad choices, but always still treating him with respect and love.
I really really recommend you read through some of Janet Lansbury's blogs and losren to some of her podcasts (Unruffled)
Good luck

OP, this sounds like a tough situation. A few things strike me:

1. That he is adjusting to a younger sibling - I think we have a tendency to underestimate how this impacts on a child's sense of security and how each new stage of development (e.g. crawling, walking, talking) can present new challenges

1. That your DS is struggling to regulate his emotions and is seeking connection with you '- nothing that you have described sounds 'naughty' but like a child looking for help to make sense of his own feelings

1. That your DS's behaviour really triggers something in you - to be terrified of how a 5 yo will react is quite extreme. If you are treading on eggshells to avoid tantrums/meltdowns, I wonder whether some boundaries are blurred (and this itself leads to a child's insecurity)

I think some of the consequences/ punishments you have described may be requiring too much of your DS - he is so little that he really cannot regulate his emotions sometimes, his brain simply cannot do it!

I have found some really helpful advice in the book 'The book you wish your parents had read' by Philippa Perry and the blog/podcast by Janet Lansbury (there are loads around the theme of emotional regulation/ challenging behaviour etc). Perhaps you could also see whether there is parenting support in your area, often offered via early intervention services - Circle of Security may be particulate helpful if available to you.

For me it seems that he is jealous of his sister and by shouting having tantrums he is making himself the centre of attention. For 4 years he had your divided attention and now he had to share you.

Ok, this may come across as a bit mad but it works.
Try the ‘10 minute miracle’
10 minutes a day you have ‘special Mummy -child’s name-‘ time where you start a timer with your phone (get him to press the start button’ and do literally whatever he wants for that 10minutes. Do it EVERY single day. Within a week, honestly, you will be having a much better relationship. He went from you being the focus of his world to being unsure of where he stood and that’s not your fault at all, it’s just what happens when all of a sudden your primary carer isn’t anymore. Add in becoming a brother and sharing you with someone he doesn’t really know yet and it’s a hard situation, which you know. He will come to count and depend on those 10minutes. He will know that that time is just for you and him and he will know that it will happen again tomorrow and the next day etc. and then he’ll start feeling safer to trust and depend on you again. First few days will probably be rough as he won’t understand, but just make sure you literally do whatever he wants just the 2 of you and your husband or someone else is there to take care of your daughter. No answering the phone/door/splitting your focus with anything else in that time.

If he wants to eat ice cream, try hand stands, jump on the bed, whatever - you’re doing it with him. It really does work.

Hope this helps OP it’s tough being a mum of 2.

Don’t ignore him. He doesn’t feel heard, ignoring him makes it worse.

I’d spend proper time with him; one on one. Make him feel loved and special.

I'm in tears reading these replies. Thank you so much.

I didn't have much guidance from my mum. She would beat me up and I was terrified of her. She isn't supportive and I can't go to her for anything. This has had a big impact as I never want to lay a finger on him and him to feel the fear I felt growing up.

I will look at all these books and have already downloaded some of the podcasts by Janet Lansbury.

It's such a hard job being a mum / parent. I want my DS to be happy, I think because his speech is so good, he comes across older as 5 and I think he should be able to rationalise things but obviously he is only 5, still a baby. Just the things he says are so hurtful. I have tried to explain things to him and he just laughs.

I do take time to listen to him, I always stop to hear him out. He does hear me telling DD off, well, telling her not to do something etc and we're always saying how much she loves him and how he's such a great big brother.

He's always been very highly strung, even as a baby.

Honestly - when he's screaming I listen to him but he just screams and we all need time out for him to calm down so we can understand what he's saying. Then when he stops we have a sit down and see what he's upset about / what we can do to make him feel better.

Hi OP, our baby is 10 months and older DS is 4 and a half, so similar.

I think the more sensitive and loving they are, the harder it is for them to adjust! Because he's feeling everything so intensely and deeply.

The most important thing I think is to keep telling your DS that you love him. Keep telling him he's your good boy. Keep up the cuddles and the kisses. Try to find time to really listen to him when he's agitated about something - get down on his level and talk to him calmly, ask him little questions to help him find his words and show him you're listening, and find ways of helping him find a solution.

If none of that is changing things fast enough/ enough generally, then by all means look at getting him some play therapy. But to me this doesn't sound like a CAMHS issue - just a confused and sad little boy feeling like his world's turned upsdie down and no one is hearing him xxx

Talk to a private child and family therapist, doesn’t have to cost loads (we did one session, cost £65, helped loads). Initially they will talk to you rather than the child and give you some coping mechanisms. Then they can do play therapy with the child if necessary.

Wants attention.

Praise praise, praise and lavish affection for all wanted and good behaviours. Do best to ignore unwanted ones. And to an extent realise he's 5 and can't be perfect.

Oh OP, I'm so sorry to hear that about your own childhood. It's so hard and lonely trying to do it from scratch when you've not had it modelled yourself. You're doing great - you're thinking about him and getting advice and support. It'll be ok

Seek some therapy for what happened with your mother , some sessions with family therapist
You don't haVe to resort to harsh punishment
And yes he is a small child still at 5 year old
Is easy to forget they still so young when you have one who is younger

Reaching out for professional help is a good thing

You're terrified of a child?!

I would talk to the SENDCo at school

You are the calm in his storm

5 year olds are hard work and can be challenging. Their brains are fizzing and learning.

Lead by example. Remain calm. Talk kindly. Demonstrate good behaviours to him. Consistently. Even when you can feel your inner rage brewing.

It's not easy.

Also, try 'special time' with him. Your complete focus, no distractions and no one else around. Let him lead the play and say yes to everything (within safety limits of course!). Try this for a full 30 minutes (or more if you have more free time). set a timer. When special time ends he might be angry and have a big emotional release.... so then you stay calm and keep the consistent message that play has ended and now it's time to do X. Let him release the emotions in a safe way. If you repeat back to him what he's saying then he knows you are listening.

Best of luck.

I agree with everything @BabycakesMatlala has said on here. Also agree with 10 minute miracle approach. The website Aha parenting night help you.

My ds2 had a terrible time after DD was born - I had pre-eclampsia and disappeared (from his perspective) for a few days then arrived back with a baby (he was 3). I have found with him that a lot of challenging behaviour comes from anxiety and being unable to emotionally regulate himself.

DS was able to access some counseling through school which really helped him. He is 8 now and things are much easier as he is more able to articulate and process his emotions (but different challenges now of course!).

Things I found in general that helped are 1) making sure he did not get too tired/hungry/thirsty/overstimulated - watch him and see what triggers him and avoid it!
2) positive 1-1 attention without sibling or other distractions - this doesn't have to be a lot of time, even 10 minutes a day.
3) preparing him for what is going to happen eg 'when we get home, we can read a story but after 10 minutes it will be bath time' or 'when you have gone to bed I am going to put your racing track away, we can build it again tomorrow'.
4) make expectations clear, like being gentle with baby & not hitting. Follow through with consequences - if you say something like 'if you don't stop X we will go home' be fully prepared to leave.

Remember that behaviour is communication, and although he probably seems super grown up compared to the baby he is still very little himself. Try to stay calm- none of us are perfect and we are all muddling along doing our best - there have been times when I have got really cross, but I say sorry and we just try to learn from it and do things better the next time.

Don't be afraid to reach out for support - through your health visitor or school nurse or local parenting groups and organisations. it's not easy at the best of times and this last 18 months has been tough on everyone. Hang in there.

@uhohspaghettiohh - you may want to leave this thread alone for a bit, but just thought I'd check in with how you're doing?

[quote BabycakesMatlala]@uhohspaghettiohh - you may want to leave this thread alone for a bit, but just thought I'd check in with how you're doing?[/quote]
Thank you for checking in. We had an epic tantrum last week which was distressing all round. I think it was because he went to after school club and it was a change in routine. He was pushing me and screaming, pulled my trousers and tore them. Anyway, it pushed me to contact school who are trying to think of a way to help. But he has calmed down since then but still emotionally wobbly yesterday. I feel better knowing school have absolutely no concerns but are now going to look at some help. Last week I was so down but hopefully things will look up soon. Just Christmas to contend with and him being overwhelmed - as a lot of children will be.

Was his previous development on track? Eg speech? Does he always react to changes in routine?

But also starting school is exhausting and stressful for them. Even into y1 if he is in y1.
We get a lot of meltdowns. This week alone dc2 has been upset that gym were bending her too much, today upset that her nasal spray flu tasted funny and make her eye hurt, last week that gym lost one of her socks, just now that dc1 blew on her angel artwork. I think with 2 kids too you get more viruses, less sleep as wake up to the other kid crying/coughing etc. I think with a bigger age gap too the eldest doesnt like that they go to preschool or school leaving the other kid at home with mum.

@uhohspaghettiohh oh no, so sorry to hear that - that sounds really distressing for both you and him. That's great if school can signpost/source some extra support - hopefully that will be helpful. I would say, services are very stretched at the moment, so it may also be worth looking into private support for him if you can afford it (not easy, I know!). Sending you best wishes - feel free to @me if you want to update....

Op, you are amazing for not loosing your temper and not hitting you ds. You are a fantastic mum.

A little bit of a different situation but my husband grew up without a father and when he was little he was constantly angry/jealous at mum's visitors and friends coming over. His mum took him to a child psycologist and only one session has changed everything. The session was 1-1 without his mum.

It might be worth looking into a professional help. X