6 month old Baby who WILL NOT NAP or sleep through

[redorange89]

My beautiful and happy son is not himself come 4pm every single day. He does not nap more than 30 mins at a time. He naps at 9am and is screaming for it as it’s just as we get back from the nursery run for my daughter. He’s tired again by 11am. He’s tired again by 2pm. He just WILL NOT GO DOWN by 330/4pm when he is tired AGAIN.

He’s up ALL NIGHT. We do bedtime with a bath starting at 615 then dry story song and feed and in bed by 655. Have tried doing the feed prior to bath. He did it the first night, next night not having it, and the next.. and so on.

I just need some help. I try to wake him when I put him in his cot most nights but he’s usually fast asleep on the boob. I read him the usual bed time story regardless. I sing him the songs regardless.

Every night I struggle to sleep because I am constantly on high alert waiting for him to wake up. I hate that I’m not enjoying my maternity leave, I’ve got a 3 year old and I’m snappy all the time. I hate leaving her to put him to sleep but I always worry I am putting her first... please help xx

I’m confused…why do you try to wake him when he’s fast asleep? If he’s awake all night then what are you waiting for him to wake up from?

Why do you try and wake him?
So he has x3 naps of 30mins a day...9am, 11am & 2pm...sounds OK. Why does he need another one at 4pm? I'm confused.
6months is young to sleep through. You need to re-evaluate your expectations.

Why do you try to wake him up when you put him in his cot? Is it because you’ve heard some bull*#% about putting babies down drowsy but awake?

I also agree not to wake him!

We found success with the 2/3/4 routine, so first nap 2 hours after wake up, next nap 3 hours after wakes up from nap, bedtime 4 hours after that.

I guess the waking up from the boob thing is you're trying wake-to-sleep?

Do you leave him for a bit to see if he will self settle when he wakes in the night? Are you expecting a 7-7 sleep through? We did a lot of shh pat and gradual retreat but I can't remember what age as DS1 is now 6 and didn't have to with the second.

@SweetBabyCheeses99 I’ve found that if I put him down asleep then he wakes up roughly 20 mins later screaming.. not sure if he’s confused about where he is. If I rouse him and put him down I get about 2 hours before he’s up again

@Anybridget7 he’s waking up tired and crying after every nap so 30 mins isn’t enough for him. He is looking for another nap by 4pm. By sleeping through I don’t mean 12 hours sorry, just a good chunk say 7 till 1 and then till morning. I fully appreciate he is waking up hungry for some of the night time wakenings but I think it’s just habit for most of it

@seaborgium it’s just through personal experience - if I wake him then he sleeps a longer chunk to begin with than if not.. he generally wakes after 20 mins crying if I don’t rouse him

@WakeUpLockie thank you I will look into that, it sounds like a helpful routine. That’s right re the wake to sleep thing and no deffo don’t expect a 12 hour run of sleep but it would just be so nice to have him get a really good chunk in the night - maybe I’m setting my expectations too high but at this stage I was expecting he’d be going 6 hours initially in the night without a feed.

I’d let him have the nap at 4pm if he wants it. If he’ll only sleep 30 minutes then he’ll be up at 4.30 anyway so you can probably still do bedtime at around 7/7.30 and at least he won’t be overtired which may help a bit.

@LakeShoreD thank you, I’ve tried getting him back down at that time but he just fights me and then ends up even more tired. The only way he sleeps at that time is in the car but at that time of day.. approaching tea time.. I just can’t take him out every day

Ultimately what is at the heart of this is that humans have evolved to carry their young like other apes do, rather than leaving them alone in a den. Your baby is freaking out when he stirs and finds himself alone. As such, these sorts of problems are perfectly natural as your fighting against his basic nature (because it's the normal way of treating babies in our culture).

Here's the science: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/381622/

@StillPerplexed I agree and that’s why I try to wake him before putting him in his cot.. but how do you explain then babies who do sleep through? My daughter was one of them as a baby

My baby was just like this. She wouldn't go down for a single nap until 8 months. All naps prior to this were in the pram or falling asleep on me after a feed. It was exhausting and eventually something had to give and I really worked on putting her down for naps and she eventually did start doing so at 8 months.

However, I really do think you can drive yourself mad trying to get a baby to go down for naps. It's so normal for a baby to want to be held or need the movement of the car (as you mentioned) to allow sleep. I round it far less stressful to feed baby to sleep, rock get or whatever she needed. Then after a month or so, I would try putting her down again. If it didn't work, I'd carry on as previously and then try again in another month. I must say that this is easier with one child than with 2...as you've said, you can't always go in the car for his 4pm nap. Is there any way you can facilitate his 4pm nap in a way that doesn't mean putting him down? Would be sleep in a sling? Or can you feed to sleep and hold him while your eldest watches cbeebies or some other activity?

It's so hard but in time, he will start going down for naps easier. In the meantime, maybe don't worry about putting him down and just go with what he wants now?

Good luck xx

@Alitlebitsleepy thank you so much for your lovely and thoughtful reply. I had heard mumsnet was a bit full on at times and maybe it’s just me as a sleep deprived mum but my god some of the replies have been.... 🥺🥺

So helpful to get your experience of things. I can only hope my son will change. My son hates the sling and will not be fed in front of a tv as he just wants to watch it too.

I think we are going to try a sleep consultant

OP I know this is really hard especially as your first baby slept well. A sleep consultant would be a good help and I also tried a couple as my DC was the worst sleeper- day and night. In all honesty, I had to accept the poor sleep and be eventually got better around 12 months. We tried every method going- gentle sleep, gradual retreat, PUPD, Ferber. Only Ferber helped but every 2 weeks we were back to square one due to teething/illness/sleeping at relatives etc. It was too traumatic.

Im only writing this as your posts read that you must find a solution. Sometimes it easier to accept difficult sleepers when your expectations are lower. Easier said than done. But hope your DC is not as difficult as mine !

My firstborn was like this. Woild only nap or sleep for 20mins at a time. I think he may have had silent reflux but I had the advice from the nct coach that breastfed babies do not need burping. Mine definitely did.
With ds2 I gave him a dummy because he liked to suck. I also did the EASY method which is Eat, Activity, Sleep, You. So I would breast feed him, he was a lot more efficient than ds1, only needing 10mins max. Whereas ds1 would want to comfort suck for an hour to sleep.( I also had the advice about cluster feeding so thought this was normal.)
Once he had a feed I would then burp him and then do some play time with him. Only 40mins max stimulation time. Then he would go in his bouncer or basinet with a dummy and put out of the way of toddler brother and he would fall asleep. He would make some whiny, grumbles but because I was changing a nappy or dealing with the toddler by the time I looked at him he had fallen asleep. He never got to the crying stage though.
Perhaps try some of these things.
Good luck.

Oh OP, I really feel for you. It’s so hard. It sounds like you have a very overtired baby, with poor naps resulting in poor nighttime sleep, resulting in poor naps etc etc - it’s an awful cycle.

I’d suggest the first thing to do is to try and work on daytime naps. If your LO is only doing 30 minute naps, then he’ll need at least 4 during the day, possibly 5, depending on wake up and bedtimes. With that kind of nap length, he’ll only cope with a maximum of 90 minutes awake before needing a nap, so your 9am nap is probably already too late, hence why he’s already overtired and grizzling. How do you get him to sleep in the day? Is there anyway he can nap before your nursery drop-off, or on route?

I agree with the PP that the 2-3-4 method is great (my 8-month old switched to this at around 6 months), but they need to be napping for longer than 30 minutes to manage that many hours awake, so for now, you’ll unfortunately need to do multiple naps a day. I had to do that between months 4-6 (so post 4-month regression and before my DD’s naps lengthened), and it was seriously hard work. That period of my life nearly broke me. But slowly her naps did lengthen, and so it meant she didn’t need as many and the pressure came off a bit.

If you can get more daytime sleep, then your nighttime sleep should improve. However, one word of caution is that you might be expecting too much from nighttime sleep regardless of nap quality. I noticed you mentioned you thought he should be doing 6 hour stretches? Well, my 8-month old naps for 2.5 hours a day and is in a great routine, but she has never done 6-hour stretches at night - it’s a lot to ask from such a tiny baby. Of course some manage it, and it seems like you were lucky with your first, but 6-hours is rare. I certainly do think your DS could sleep better at night if his naps were sorted, but I would also maybe adjust your expectations of nightime sleep.

Maybe a sleep consultant could help you with a schedule for naps, but it’s often a lot of money, so if I were you, I’d try more naps for a few weeks first and see what that does. But, you do have my full sympathy as I know how hard it can be and how desperate you can feel wanting answers. The truth is that they all get there eventually, so you can be hopeful, and I think there are definitely some things you could do to help him along

Oh love, I've been there, I still remember the dread/feeling like going to bed myself was pointless as dc was inevitably going to wake up as soon as I nodded off.

Best advice I got was to make sure baby was winded properly after a bf. Mine would always nod off on the boob and (especially for dd) wake up 30 mins later to projectile vomit across the room. A particular highlight was when I'd also nodded off in the rocking chair, only to be awoken to an explosion of regurgitated breast milk all in my bra, over my dressing gown, even through to my pants and between my legs as I sat onto the cushion. Grim.

So rather than wake up before being put down, spend 10 minutes winding, jiggling, changing positions to get the burps out from all the nooks and crannies.

And bf babies really will struggle to sleep through at 6m, though the joy/panic of getting 4-5-6 hours in one go is a very lovely experience occasionally.

It really does get better op, I promise, although the dark fog I felt at this stage was quite a challenge. Have you spoken to your HV for some reassurance?

@redorange89 that's OK, I know how hard it is having a baby like this and that's without having another child to worry about!

Some people do seem to have success with a sleep consultant so yeah why not?

He will change. When times were tough, I'd remind myself that everything is temporary with a baby.

@redorange89
Do you feed him, as well as breast feeding. ? X

Maybe get some infant gaviscon too x

@StillPerplexed as much as I agree in principle and am a big advocate for cosleeping / being responsive..I coslept from day one and my daughter still wakes in the night (at 22 months) and has always fought naps..some of them are just bad sleepers unfortunately!

OP I dont know if you’re open to it or not but you could try cosleeping at least temporarily until this bad sleep period has passed, just so you get more sleep yourself? I found it way easier to just stick an arm out to put dummy back in etc or breastfeed with my eyes closed and not having to get out of bed at all.

Hi all

Thanks so much for your replies. Sorry for the delay.. I was kind of put off coming back on to this thread after some of the initial replies I got!!

@Redcart21 I think you are right, we need a sleep consultant. I’m really struggling mentally

@YoComoManzanas what made you find out about silent reflux? Are there any key signs to look for? Not something I’ve ever thought about before. It’s generally every 2 or 2.5 hours after feeding that he gets upset during the night after the initial battle to get him to go down and stay down if I don’t feed him to sleep

@canyoutoleratethis thank you for your lovely message. I had a horrific night last night so he’s had 4 naps varying in length from 20 mins to one hour today... really hoping for a better night and will persevere to allow him to nap as soon as he looks tired even if it has just been an hour since his last

@UhOhOops your story made me laugh.. bet you didn’t at the time. I’ve been really focusing on burping the last few nights since seeing your message but he just doesn’t seem to have any to come up.. keeping on going with that tho. Have spoken to HV and she was great at first but I think even she had expected things would improve a little by now and I get the feeling she’s just sick of hearing it from me.. she just comes away with the same repetitive phrases every time I see her even when they don’t fit with what I’m saying.. kind of like she’s just on auto pilot. So just saving all my moans for mumsnet now haha!!

@Alitlebitsleepy thank you x

@lisaandalan no he won’t take a bottle despite my very best efforts 😭😭

@Em0865 yes absolutely fine with co sleeping for short term but I do it some nights and I really don’t sleep well and as he begins rolling about more I just know I’m going to stop sleeping entirely when he’s in the bed!!

Thanks again everyone, your responses really mean a lot. It’s been a really lonely and dark time and just chatting with people who get it and have had a similar experience or can offer some suggestions to try is really good for my mood and hope!! Thank you xx

I’ve found that if I put him down asleep then he wakes up roughly 20 mins later screaming.. not sure if he’s confused about where he is. If I rouse him and put him down I get about 2 hours before he’s up again

Have you tried waiting a bit longer to put him down after feeding to sleep? My DS too would wake up after 20 minutes if I put him down as soon as he finished feeding. But if I hold him for another half hour or hour and only then put him down, he stays asleep for a few hours. Maybe this might work for you too? xx

I’m really hoping you have a better night tonight! Sounds like you nailed a good day of naps, so I’m keeping my fingers crossed for you. Try not to get get disheartened if he takes a few days, maybe even a week, of better naps before his night time sleep improves though, as he needs to break out of the overtired cycle and that can take a bit of time for them to catch up. I know that’s easier said than done, especially after a really tough night like last night, but persevere with the naps as they really will make a difference. It can be so relentless constantly getting them to sleep when they’ve not even been awake too long, but slowly his naps will naturally lengthen and you’ll be able to keep him awake longer, and cut the overall number of naps. I have been where you are and I never thought it would change, but it does change, so keep going, you’re doing great! And there’s a lot of support here to listen and try to help so please never think you’re on your own

Hi all

Thought it was only fair to come back and post an update after all of your help!! I met with a sleep consultant on Wednesday morning and things have drastically improved over the course of 3 nights.

My son just slept from 7-2.30 (cried out but I went through and shushed him gently through his cot and he fell back asleep) and then has slept till morning (still sleeping now!!) he’s off his milk feeds in the night since Wednesday and no longer sleeps with a dummy.

He’s feeding much better during the day as a result and now has a breakfast which he was previously refusing.

Honestly, I cannot believe how much things have changed!!! On Monday night I was up no fewer than 8 times comforting him and all of the times he ended up on the boob. 4 times a night was standard.

So happy!! And so is he in terms of his day time mood now

Oh OP that's such good news. The newborn sleep haze is manageable, when they are older and still not sleeping it's so so hard. And incredibly isolating and depression inducing (and I do not day this lightly, have been there several times myself).

Songs like you have made amazing progress, have you managed to get him to sleep longer in the day? Seems to me it was over tiredness, which is a horrific cycle to try and break, but then In absolutely no expert.

So pleased to hear your update