My 5yo's teacher is insufferably woke

[Ladyday1995]

Apologies if this is not in the right category.

My DS started year 1 in September. His new teacher has been somewhat of a thorn in my side for a few weeks. Nothing serious though and I've never had much need to speak much to her.
DS came home last week waxing lyrically about COP26, how we are wrecking the planet and destroying animals habitats. He quite rightly doesn't understand what he can do about it, we live a fairly "green" lifestyle etc. We talked about it at length so I could make sure he understood.
Anyway, I'm not all too happy that this is what he's being taught in his valuable schooling hours. I've had a little peep on teachers Twitter and she jumps on many trendy societal issues of today, even supporting insulate Britain FFS.
I realise this is a slippery slope. I'm in Wales and I know the gov has recently slipped past a controversial new "diversity and equality" plan for the curriculum. I can't say I agree with much of what I've read being taught to children, particularly regarding sex education, and gender identity.
It's a bit of a minefield. The climate change lessons aren't ideal, but I digress. My worry starts when the PSE lessons start. Ideally I'd not have my son attend these lessons at all. I am more than capable of explaining these matters to him myself when I think he is mature enough to understand. Is it unreasonable to ask for a more detailed report of what they will be studying? I don't want to look like some Pearl clutching bigot. I am concerned about how much of his teacher's political stances could seep into her teaching practice. Does anyone else have any experience or ideas of what little uns are being taught in school these days?

[quote Megalameg]@TrampolineForMrKite

You are missing the point, it doesn’t matter what your political beliefs are or whether they align with mine - you should not be pushing them on school kids. That’s not what your payed for or what parents send their kids to school for.

Frankly it seems very egotistical, like you see the class room as your own soapbox with an audience that has no choice but to be there and listen to your irrelevant to their schooling beliefs. And since you’ve agreed with a post that basically confirms you think teachers are just so clever (it’s a basic degree ffs) that parents can’t comprehend the genius it takes to teach, I can’t help but think that’s exactly how you see it.

Once again, parents don’t care about your beliefs or send their children to school so you can live out your fantasy of being an activist or politician and let everyone know about your politics. And I’m sure kids don’t care either. You are payed to educate children in the given subject, not treat the classroom like your own private Facebook page.[/quote]
Why do you assume teachers are pushing their views onto children? The OP even acknowledged the teacher had not done so.

It comes across as you hate teachers. No one is using a classroom as their 'private Facebook page.'

I'm not sure what you mean by a 'basic degree.' all undergraduate degrees have the same weighing. There's no 'basic.' Teachers also have post graduate qualifications so it's more than a degree.

Additionally teachers are paid not 'payed'

[quote TrampolineForMrKite]@Megalameg but your subject will feed into loads of other subjects. Especially something like English (which is my subject) which takes in history, RE, politics, sociology, art along the way. 11-18yr olds have got clear opinions and ideas of their own, they ask about yours as a teacher, but also just as an adult humans. And some of those questions will be about your politics or religion or whatever.

I remember the first time it happened when I was an NQT.... I was explaining the political spectrum to a class of year 9s.... the big line, left and right, what ideologies are important to groups along the line....which famous figures are where.... some bits from recent and historical manifestos on the board “Where would Winston Churchill have been?” .... “What about Hitler?”...“Where is Tony Blair?”.... “Margaret Thatcher?”... “Where’s our local MP?” And quite understandably they wanted to know where I would put myself. I remember distinctly being worried that I would say the wrong thing or something wrong or unprofessional. So I decided to write down words that I thought were important next to the line: “charity”, “compassion”, “help”, “support” and asked the class where they would go on the political spectrum. A pretty good way of handling it, I’d say. And whilst I made clear that I had left wing leanings and the conversation that followed underlined that, it’s hardly the giving out of “Ban the Bomb” badges and copies of the Communist Manifesto that some people seem to be associating with an “egotistical teacher” pushing their agenda on innocent minds. It was an intelligent conversation and exchange of ideas between an educator and their pupils. And it’s a pretty decent example of the conversations that have come after between me and kids of all kinds of ages, abilities and backgrounds.

I do call my pupils “Comrade” though, that’s fine, right?[/quote]
I think this sounds like a great lesson - a real discussion that gets the children to think.

@TrampolineForMrKite

You call them 'Comrade'? I'm a little disappointed that you don't converse with them solely in Russian. :)

"He has his entire life to comprehend that the planet is facing a crisis. He has just about gotten over the global pandemic that shook the world. I don't understand why we can't let kids be kids for a little while, considering all that they have been through"

Completely agree my DD is in reception

Oh christ, I wish these woke teachers would bugger off with their ethics and their good intentions. Can't our children just learn about the Tudors like the good old days?

@WhoIsBernieBrown

Oh christ, I wish these woke teachers would bugger off with their ethics and their good intentions. Can't our children just learn about the Tudors like the good old days?

It’s to stop people growing up to be ignorant.

I think that post was tongue in cheek

@StrychnineInTheSandwiches

I think that post was tongue in cheek

So was mine.

@ArthurTudor

Gee, maybe it’s because @TrampolineForMrKite has been proudly bragging in his comments that he pushes his views into the classroom because “teaching is about more than the subject at hand”.

You do realise that if it’s right for people with your political persuasions to do this there is also absolutely nothing to stop people with right wing or alt right views doing the same if they’re teachers right? If it just “happens to come up”. Is that cool with you too?

I now realise some teachers here apparently find it very difficult not to blurt out their political views to small children but it’s really not that hard - just remember, if small children ask you to tell them about your political views your allowed to say no.

[quote Megalameg]@ArthurTudor

Gee, maybe it’s because @TrampolineForMrKite has been proudly bragging in his comments that he pushes his views into the classroom because “teaching is about more than the subject at hand”.

You do realise that if it’s right for people with your political persuasions to do this there is also absolutely nothing to stop people with right wing or alt right views doing the same if they’re teachers right? If it just “happens to come up”. Is that cool with you too?

I now realise some teachers here apparently find it very difficult not to blurt out their political views to small children but it’s really not that hard - just remember, if small children ask you to tell them about your political views your allowed to say no.[/quote]
I have never said I think teachers should express their political views. As you stated one poster had expressed their view that it's ok if you tell them it don't try to persuade them...but you are making out all teachers have this opinion.

I'm sure you've guessed by now I am a teacher too. You can probably guess my subject from my username so politics comes up constantly in my lessons. I never have, and never will, tell my students my views. My colleagues are clear on this too. I do agree that as we are in a position of influence it's inappropriate to share.

You are making out that teachers are regularly sharing their political persuasions in an attempt to indoctrinate. It's not the case from my experience in multiple schools (Vs your experience of one poster on MN).

@ArthurTudor

If you feel I am attacking all teachers that was never my intention - I am not trying to say that most teachers regularly share their political persuasions, I don’t believe that they do. And I agree that while it’s not the worst thing ever if students find out - it’s better for everyone if it’s kept out of the classroom.

I do think that some teachers such as one commenting here, do like to share their political persuasions out of a belief that they are right so it is their right to do so, and to be honest, because they like the sound of their own voice and feeling important when talking about things they feel strongly about and the classroom allows them the chance to do so.

@ArthurTudor and that “one poster here on MN” isn’t even doing that, @Megalameg has just spent 11 pages wilfully misinterpreting what I’ve said and not listening to the age of the kids I teach. They’ve said about ten times variations of “and you think it’s okay to say that to six year olds, do you?” For the last time, I teach secondary school kids and I hardly teach anyone under 14.

[quote TrampolineForMrKite]@ArthurTudor* and that “one poster here on MN” isn’t even doing that, *@Megalameg has just spent 11 pages wilfully misinterpreting what I’ve said and not listening to the age of the kids I teach. They’ve said about ten times variations of “and you think it’s okay to say that to six year olds, do you?” For the last time, I teach secondary school kids and I hardly teach anyone under 14.[/quote]
I haven't really agreed with much @Megalameg has said on this thread. I agree there has been some wilfull misinterpretation of a lot of things actually (like jigsaw being a secret).

However I do actually agree that we shouldn't share our political views with any age group. As teachers we are in a position of influence. I think she has a point about if we shared more right wing views people would be up in arms. Present the facts and students can make up their own minds. Obviously it's fine to say extremism is wrong.

I also teach secondary school students and we discuss politics lots. But not my personal views.

All the people saying that it's fine to share their political views in the classroom would no doubt be up in arms if the teacher was a conservative supporter.

What would be the opinion if the teacher was a big Boris fan, thought immigration was bad, and Brexit was great. Would it still be OK to share their views?

@ArthurTudor I get the POV, but what about if it comes up because you’re asked what you’re looking for in a government, say (like the example I gave up thread when I was teaching the political spectrum)? Would you say “oh I don’t discuss my political viewpoint”? Because I can see how that would work with some kids/in some teaching styles but it’s so far from who I am as a teacher.... I always talk about my kids and my husband and my family and my life in class when it comes up and fits in with the discussion. It would just feel so out of character and weird for me to clam up at that point. I think the kids I teach would be confused at how not like me that is too and it would only lead to more questions.

@ShrillSiren actually we’ve got a couple of Boris-lovers/Brexit supporters in our department. Comes up sometimes with the kids.... and used to come up way more during the referendum and in he immediate aftermath. Those teachers would explain why they were pro it and it became a running joke in the office after one of them was called out by a sixth former for being “a muppet if you think Boris is anything but a self-serving bellend”. I no more objected to them discussing their views with the kids with anyone else (although was secretly very admiring of the sixth former).

That's 16 to18-year-olds who probably already have an opinion on politics, how about if it's aimed towards 11-year-olds? Still OK?

How about if it's your own kids that were being taught right-wing opinions? (not the ones you teach as it's easy to be cavalier about what's being taught to someone else's kids) Because I don't believe for one second that a lot of people who consider themselves left-wing would be OK with it.

I think that children need to be aware that many people have different views. If they are only told views held by family members then the risk of indoctrination is surely higher than being educated about different views in a classroom.

[quote TrampolineForMrKite]@ArthurTudor I get the POV, but what about if it comes up because you’re asked what you’re looking for in a government, say (like the example I gave up thread when I was teaching the political spectrum)? Would you say “oh I don’t discuss my political viewpoint”? Because I can see how that would work with some kids/in some teaching styles but it’s so far from who I am as a teacher.... I always talk about my kids and my husband and my family and my life in class when it comes up and fits in with the discussion. It would just feel so out of character and weird for me to clam up at that point. I think the kids I teach would be confused at how not like me that is too and it would only lead to more questions.

@ShrillSiren actually we’ve got a couple of Boris-lovers/Brexit supporters in our department. Comes up sometimes with the kids.... and used to come up way more during the referendum and in he immediate aftermath. Those teachers would explain why they were pro it and it became a running joke in the office after one of them was called out by a sixth former for being “a muppet if you think Boris is anything but a self-serving bellend”. I no more objected to them discussing their views with the kids with anyone else (although was secretly very admiring of the sixth former).[/quote]
I think you could just explain to them given your position of influence you don't think I to appropriate to share your view as you want then to make up their own minds and not be influenced by you.

I understand it feels a bit weird not to share but I do think it is important you don't

@Sherrystrull

I think that children need to be aware that many people have different views. If they are only told views held by family members then the risk of indoctrination is surely higher than being educated about different views in a classroom.

The problem is that the pushing of a political or social viewpoint within a family isn't regarded as indoctrination even though it meets all the same criteria that a teacher doing the same thing would.

I've encountered so many adults who come out with crap like "I think/vote x, y or z because daddy does and he's so clever." Without exposure to different viewpoints, children will never learn critical thinking.

(I'm not advocating for teachers pushing a viewpoint in their classroom - that is wrong. But children should be encouraged to explore other viewpoints themselves as they grow up).

All the people saying that it's fine to share their political views in the classroom would no doubt be up in arms if the teacher was a conservative supporter.
What would be the opinion if the teacher was a big Boris fan, thought immigration was bad, and Brexit was great. Would it still be OK to share their views?
Personally I think judging when and how to share opinions and political views is a big grey area and one that can easily go wrong. I wouldn't have a problem if in a lesson/conversation a member of staff shared their views as long as it was handled appropriately for the situation and students, in line with British values (as the standards say), they were ensuring a range of views were treated with respect and dignity, and it wasn't part of the teacher regularly using the classroom as their soapbox.

For example, a GCSE student asking a teacher's views on a news issue or a social issue from a GCSE set text is very different from a teacher teaching telling 11 year old students that they support/don't support a particular side on a political topic in PSHE, and then a week later having a soapbox moment, then drip drip dripping their views because I'm just showing different views.

I have 2 concerns regarding personal views in the classroom.

1. That some teachers claim they show both sides and that sharing their views is just showing one view, but their handling to alternate views strongly conveys their biases. Their view and the opposing views are not equally or fairly conveyed. They have a blind spot because they aren't reflective enough to realise that views and agendas can be communication without explicitly trashing other views.
2. That some teachers are so convinced they're the good guys and on the right side of assorted issues that it doesn't cross their mind that there would be a problem sharing their views regularly. There's an implicit assumption that anyone who was reasonable and well informed must have come to the same conclusion as them.

Both of those are a minority as most behave with professionalism and integrity, but both concern me.

@ShrillSiren

That's 16 to18-year-olds who probably already have an opinion on politics, how about if it's aimed towards 11-year-olds? Still OK?

How about if it's your own kids that were being taught right-wing opinions? (not the ones you teach as it's easy to be cavalier about what's being taught to someone else's kids) Because I don't believe for one second that a lot of people who consider themselves left-wing would be OK with it.

But I’m not “teaching left wing opinions” ..... I’m providing context and a viewpoint for wider ideas. Of course I would object if my kids were “being taught right wing opinions” (what would that look like? The Hitler Youth?) but I wouldn’t object to a teacher of my child’s doing what I do, just from the other end of the political spectrum.

[quote TrampolineForMrKite]@Megalameg but your subject will feed into loads of other subjects. Especially something like English (which is my subject) which takes in history, RE, politics, sociology, art along the way. 11-18yr olds have got clear opinions and ideas of their own, they ask about yours as a teacher, but also just as an adult humans. And some of those questions will be about your politics or religion or whatever.

I remember the first time it happened when I was an NQT.... I was explaining the political spectrum to a class of year 9s.... the big line, left and right, what ideologies are important to groups along the line....which famous figures are where.... some bits from recent and historical manifestos on the board “Where would Winston Churchill have been?” .... “What about Hitler?”...“Where is Tony Blair?”.... “Margaret Thatcher?”... “Where’s our local MP?” And quite understandably they wanted to know where I would put myself. I remember distinctly being worried that I would say the wrong thing or something wrong or unprofessional. So I decided to write down words that I thought were important next to the line: “charity”, “compassion”, “help”, “support” and asked the class where they would go on the political spectrum. A pretty good way of handling it, I’d say. And whilst I made clear that I had left wing leanings and the conversation that followed underlined that, it’s hardly the giving out of “Ban the Bomb” badges and copies of the Communist Manifesto that some people seem to be associating with an “egotistical teacher” pushing their agenda on innocent minds. It was an intelligent conversation and exchange of ideas between an educator and their pupils. And it’s a pretty decent example of the conversations that have come after between me and kids of all kinds of ages, abilities and backgrounds.

I do call my pupils “Comrade” though, that’s fine, right?[/quote]
I am genuinely interested now in how I could have better handled the situation outlined above. I’d spent all of these years- almost 20 of them- thinking this initial way of handling it (and how I still do handle it) was pretty good. How would other people have gone about it in this situation outlined above?

How would other people have gone about it in this situation outlined above?
In a whole class year 9 lesson I wouldn't have put myself on the political spectrum at all. I'd have asked them why it matters where my current political position lies and probably also explained the complexity of ideology, shown them the political compass, discussed the idea of ideology as a horseshoe rather than a left/right divide and that there's many ways of framing ideology. Obviously this would be linked to the lesson objectives and the topic at hand, so if we were studying An Inspector Calls at GCSE then I might link to ideology of the time, social context, the impact of historical events on public attitudes attitudes politics and social issues etc.

Obviously I wasn't in the lesson, but I'm not sure how it's possible to put charity or compassion on the political spectrum without suggesting that one side is charitable and compassionate and the other isn't. I'm left leaning, but would argue that some of the old school conservative people I know are much more charitable, compassionate and philanthropic than the more narcissistic members of the current left.

Ffs!

Stop telling op to home ed… the last thing the community needs is more people who want to isolate their kids from society/the world