Toilet training for a very resistant 3 year old?

[WeCalledTheDogIndiana]

DD has just turned 3 (October) and is completely resistant to toilet training. Even the suggestion of using the toilet triggers a huge meltdown.

She has had lots of the “ready” signs for ages and is fascinated by other people using the toilet, but gets either inconsolably upset or absolutely furious if we suggest she uses it. She has successfully gone on the toilet as an occasionally one-off (for both) but she just now seems stuck in either fear or refusal or a bit of both.

It’s been pretty gentle to date - eg nursery have been taking her to the toilet in a group every 20 minutes^^ for a few months, we’ve switched her to pull ups, taken her to the toilet when she shows signs of being about to go, been getting her to sit on the toilet for a few minutes before the evening bath, sticker charts and rewards, etc. It’s been about 6 months since we first started but we’ve never been able to move her from “try the toilet if you want to“ (which she occasionally would) to regularly using the toilet, and now she won’t ever try. I don’t know what went wrong but clearly something has and I don’t know how to get us out of it.

On the one hand we could leave it for the moment, except she is also now furious if we try to change her nappy (eg this afternoon, her needing a change triggered a whole “I’m not a baby I’m a big girl!” meltdown. She has not got that from us, but can see she might from nursery as she’s in the pre school room and everyone else there is using the toilet now)

Am toying with just dedicating a long weekend to the oh crap method and riding out the fury but she is so angry and upset about the whole thing I worry forcing things in that way will make it a million times worse. On the other hand, she is also angry and upset that all her friends use the toilet now and she doesn’t, and kicks off with every nappy change. So something needs to change.

For context, she is NT (as far as we can tell), but very strong willed and oppositional in general. I’m very aware that she’s recently had several big changes for a toddler - house move, new baby, dropped her nap, moved up to pre school room in nursery all in the past three months - which has definitely triggered a bit more clinginess to me and some meltdowns are definitely due to tiredness/overwhelm. So it all just feels a bit much for her at the moment. But then she gets very upset when she needs her nappy changed, so I'd like to help her move on from that. No other noticeable changes in behaviour and she's generally a very happy little girl

I’m no expert but her reaction sounds like maybe she’s a little bit ashamed of her situation - not that she should be but clearly she has become aware that she’s a little behind her peers at nursery in this respect, and maybe a comment has hit her hard. And then her shame/frustration at herself is coming out as anger and upset. Perhaps she’s afraid of failure (accidents) in case it turns out she’s not a “big girl”? I’m not sure what the magical solution is though, just an insight.

I was going to say "just do it" until I saw what you said about all the changes in the last 3 months. Given that I'd totally back off, wait 3m since the last big change and then try again.

I bet you don't know any NT adults who wear nappies so don't panic that you've "missed the boat"- that's just crap that people knock parents with.

I assume you have a step stall and a proper children's toilet seat?
Has she had a bit of a mishap and nearly fallen in or similar and is actually frightened?
Have you tried a potty first?

I agree I’d wait a little while as she’s had so much to cope with. Then maybe try a potty initially instead of the toilet and try the oh crap method. My youngest was scared of the toilet for a while but was happy to use the potty. She covered it in stickers and was very proud of it.

Putting a child on the toilet every 20 minutes sounds absolutely grim. Sounds like she has got a thing about it now. I think I'd leave it a week or two. And start again saying tell me if you need to go to the toilet. Even it its too late still praise for telling you. Have you got a childs toilet seat. Much better than a potty.

Thanks for the replies and sorry, got derailed with the baby last night so didn't come back immediately

Yes, we have a step stool and a children's toilet seat. We don't have a potty, I suggested we choose one together when we were in the supermarket a little while ago and she cried ☹️

Every twenty minutes is a pretty recommended approach I thought (and what her nursery does) , but either way it didn't work as she just always said screamed that she didn't want to go. Nursery have now switched to asking if she wants to go (she always says no), as the rest of her group are sorted so there's no mass trip every twenty minutes IYSWIM

You are right that she won't be in nappies when she's a grown up. I think a PP got it right when she said there's a bit of shame there though and I really want to help her move on from being stuck in case that gets worse. I took her into a toilet with me (because I needed it!) when we were out this morning and she looked really nervous and kept saying "I don't want to go toilet" even when I kept saying she didn't have to, but mummy needed to go. But then she insisted on pressing the flush. Is it possible to have a love/hate relationship with toilets...? 🤦‍♀️

To the PP who asked if she'd had a mishap / nearly fallen in, definitely not at home. Nursery never mentioned one, just said she kept refusing which started calamity but over time stepped up to being furious and refusing, if that makes sense

She keeps ordering her older brother (who is 6 and hasn't had an accident for years) to go to the toilet. So it's clearly on her mind a lot

*calmly. Not calamity. Though let's be fair, that probably applies too at this point

Actually, now I think about it more and reading replies, I think what I need to work out is not how to get her toilet trained exactly but how to stop the toilet being such a source of anxiety for her. If she just wasn't ready I'd be fine with it, it's that both using the toilet/potty and nappies seem to cause her a lot of angst right now

(not that I know how to do that either, but it's helpful to clarify it in my mind)

I would back off completely for a few weeks, leave the toilet seat in view and some pants visible in her drawer but don't mention it.
It sounds like nursery have had quite an intense approach - toilet visits every twenty minutes is a lot!

I would get a potty so she can use it herself if she wants to? Then it's less of a big thing of having to get you to help, and having an audience. Will she wear pants? Just put her in them when at home? A big well done if she uses the potty, no big deal if there's an accident. I just had the potty around for a while before even really trying "training" and mentioned it on and off.

@WeCalledTheDogIndiana

Actually, now I think about it more and reading replies, I think what I need to work out is not how to get her toilet trained exactly but how to stop the toilet being such a source of anxiety for her. If she just wasn't ready I'd be fine with it, it's that both using the toilet/potty and nappies seem to cause her a lot of angst right now

(not that I know how to do that either, but it's helpful to clarify it in my mind)

Totally this. If she's scared to even go into a toilet with you when you need to go, then getting her to go herself is fighting a losing battle.

Could you get her to sit on the toilet with an iPad or something? Not to go, just to sit and watch/play a game?

We got one of those mini toilets instead of a potty for my son because he was scared of the flush and we just kept it in the kitchen, so he didn't even need to go into the bathroom. Something like that might help? Take the pressure off, she's only just three so not a massive outlier in terms of the 'normal' range of toilet training. You can easily leave it a week or two and just focus on making the toilet a 'fun' place or at least a safe place, as the priority?

My DD was similar and totally against it at 3 so I just waited until she was very ready, asking to go, and just trained her over a weekend when she was 3.5years, she went straight to using the toilet with a child seat as she refused to sit on a potty. In between I didn't suggest she tried and I asked nursery to leave it for a bit. I kept it casual but gradually we read potty books from the library, the dolls got a potty, she got pants with characters on, she moved to using pull-ups and removing them herself and having a go at wiping herself and we started doing this in the bathroom stood up, rather than in her room lying on a changing mat. When she was ready she literally went from nappies on the Friday to pants and dry on the Tuesday at nursery so it's a lot less hassle to go at her pace.

In the short term, could you get her to change her own pull-up (when wet) and do a poo one standing up as if she had used the toilet? That would give her some control and take away some of the baby aspects of wearing pull-ups.

You could also get her some pants to wear over her pull-up so she feels like a big girl. Also, they'll then be familiar when she eventually loses the pull-ups. It may even encourage her to lose the pull-ups altogether.

I would also get a potty chair and leave it in the bathroom as an option. I wouldn't force it in any way, don't even mention it, but just have it there incase.

When you're ready to try again, just go cold turkey. Months and months of stickers and bribery and 20 minutes toilet visits is too much! It's so much pressure.

In the short term, could you get her to change her own pull-up (when wet) and do a poo one standing up as if she had used the toilet? That would give her some control and take away some of the baby aspects of wearing pull-ups

This is a really good idea, thank you! I think she absolutely hates the baby aspect of pull ups, especially as the actual baby uses the same changing mat.

(Tried pants over pull ups, tears. I even bought her peppa pig pants, and I hate peppa pig with a vengeance)

I'd also back off.

I have a ds who is very reluctant to potty train. Everything I've read says to back off with potty refusal.

I thinj my ds can do it. We've had some sitting on the potty and toilet. He has managed one wee in the potty etc and if he has no nappy on and needs a wee, he will tell me he needs a nappy! So he is ready, physically, but he simply doesn't want to do it.

Nursery has said to keep him in pull on nappies. They take him to the loo. They think a few more weeks of this and maybe them move on to training pants.

My older dc learnt really quickly and quite young, so I don't know what the issue is with ds. But I'm taking a very gentle approach.

When she was ready she literally went from nappies on the Friday to pants and dry on the Tuesday at nursery

Thank you, this gives me a little bit of hope!

just focus on making the toilet a 'fun' place or at least a safe place, as the priority?

This is also a really good idea, thanks. Have just spent twenty minutes googling toilet games (so there goes my algorithm!)

Actually all the ideas are really helpful, thank you so much everyone. I think I've got almost as stuck as she has.

My little sister was a bit like this, she was very scared and anxious and resisted terribly even though she was more than ready! She did get there, and is now an 18 year old at university and definitely not in nappies back off for a bit, she will do it in her own time

I would get a potty so she can use it herself if she wants to? Then it's less of a big thing of having to get you to help, and having an audience.

I like this idea as well. She is very much "I do it myself, go away" with everything at the moment. Maybe her own potty in the downstairs toilet, as she passes by that all the time when she's pottering about playing between the front room and the back room downstairs

This was my DS (he turned 3 in May). He was ready just absolutely refused. No trauma or reason why, just took against the idea completely.
I resorted to bribery. I knew once he did one wee in the potty (and saw it was fine) that he'd be fine, he used to tell
Me he needed a wee and stand up to do it in his nappy so had complete control.
I said that when he did a wee in potty, I'd take him straight to Smyths and buy him anything. And ten mins later I had a wee in the potty and was £30 down an hour later after the shopping trip! But after that first
Wee, he absolutely did it. He only ever had 2 wee accidents. Never a poo accident and is completely dry at night 3 months later

How old is your DS, @AreYouRightThereSkippy ? Sounds very similar. My eldest wasn't particularly young or quick but it was much more straightforward than DD so she's taken me a bit by surprise as well

He is also 3yo

I tried several times to toilet train my 2 year old, think I blew my mind more than hers 🤯 I totally backed off and one morning she just woke up said no more nappies big girl toilet from now. It's like it just clicked with her?! Who knows what's best, but I just totally backed off, good luck xx

Back off. It's not the end of the world if she potty trains a few months later than you'd like.

Then take her out shopping for big girl knickers / let her choose toilet seat etc.