Struggling with 3.5yr old

[SecondhandTable]

Me and DH both feel like we are at our wits end with her. We've just had DC2, he's still off work and he's basically just spent most of his time off being screamed at by her. Honestly I bet he wishes he hadn't taken so long off because she's been absolutely awful, particularly to him. I know this is a big change for her but actually none of the behaviour is new, she's been like this for months with me but used to better with him. I am frequently bursting into tears because I just feel so overwhelmed with her constant screaming meltdowns. As she's our first I realise I don't have much to compare it to but I just don't feel this behaviour is 'normal'?? E.g. going from one screaming meltdown to another, right now shes literally been screaming her head off for an hour with no end in sight. She throws things, sometimes comes to push or hit me/DH, slams doors, refuses to do anything for or by herself (things she can perfectly well do, I mean). She even screams about things like getting ready to go somewhere that she wants to go and enjoys going so getting her out anywhere is an absolute nightmare. We persevere because her behaviour is a million times better out the house. We get back in and it's like a flip switches and she just goes off on one again usually within a few mins. If you say no to anything she throws a tantrum - this doesn't stop us saying no. I feel like weve tried everything and nothing works - distraction doesn't work, reasoning doesn't work, explaining consequences doesn't work, ignoring her doesn't work, I've read Raising Your Spirited Child and How To Talk so Little Kids Will Listen and tried all the strategies, none of it works. She doesnt listen to anything we say she never complies with anything we ask her to do, she doesn't eat properly either and shes started waking up in the night a lot just screaming the place down and saying things like 'put my duvet on me' 7 times a night even though obviously she can well do that herself. I just don't know what to do, we are all just so unhappy.

Oh wow that sounds tough. I have no advice but sympathy. Do you not have any family support, grandparents etc who can have her maybe for a day or two to give you a break and maybe give her focused attention? (not that you're not doing this but obviously with baby number 2 etc...)

Just wanted to stop by to say, my oldest DC also turned into an absolute demon between 3 and 4. Pretty much a year of what you’re describing. Like you it coincided with a new baby in the house. (Baby arrived when DC1 was just turning 3). We finally figured out checking and hard line discipling wasn’t working. The approach that seemed to work best was 1-1 time and praise praise praise- for everything remotely good. Breaking the cycle of bad behaviour = attention really. DC now 5 and while there are still mental moments on occasion that stage has very definitely passed.

Also- talk to family or friends who won’t judge to you get through it. Sometimes texting your best friend about what an utter dick your child has been all day can be the thing that keeps you sane. The right friends will text back with stories of their demon dickish children.

💐

She goes to nursery 2 days a week but she's missed most of it over the last few weeks due to illness and then their vaccination policy, so that hasn't helped. Really hasn't been the start to my baby's life that we'd envisaged - Ive had issues recovering so been back to the hospital 3 times over the last few weeks, DD's missed most of her nursery days and both her and DH were very unwell with tonsillitis in the baby's first week of life. Then we've had the constant screaming meltdowns all day from DD. The baby isn't much bother so far (3w old) and me and DH feel so sad that we can't enjoy him or his pat leave because of DD.

She permanently has 1-on-1 time since the baby was born, there is literally always someone else with her, she's never had to play or do anything alone since he was born. One of us is with baby whilst the other one is with her. We've had some visits from relatives who have fawned over DD which she enjoyed and that did give us some hours of respite from the meltdowns but thats only a few occasions in a few weeks. My DM took her for a few hours once when DH was ill but she's got cancer and is currently unable to provide any care - she used to have DD once a week before I went on mat leave. There are no other people around willing or able that she would be comfortable being left with. A few of my friends have offered but she's very clingy and gets upset at the thought of it when I've floated it so I can't do that to her (or them tbf!).

My eldest went through a phase of waking through the night and shouting / crying for things he could do himself like put his blanket back on etc but also for cuddles after my second arrived. It did pass but I think it was due to be unsettled by DC2, almost like it was on his mind and waking him up like we wake up with stress but as he couldn’t vocalise it it came out as attention demanding for other things

He also had some absolutely topic melt downs, and was quite aggressive at times to me and the baby. I tried time outs, consequences, explanations, all sorts nothing worked. Then tried more positive approach by offering cuddle or hand strokes if cuddle was too much. At first and mid tantrum he would be enraged by me offering a cuddle, but after offering a few times, he would accept (or at least me stroke his hands and then give him a cuddle) and this diffused the tantrum quite quickly. It also helped me as rather than feeling stressed / wound up by the tantrum and generally emotionally charged atmosphere - it is a nice and positive way of calming everything down. And then once he is calm he’s then able to say he’s tired or why he’s sad etc and you can rationalise it all a bit better

I don't think you can underestimate the effect that new sibling has - I thought we'd prepared DS well and then one day he yanked the cushion from under DD while I was feeding her and nearly sat on her head. I also split my c section wound hauling him out of a park at week 6 so that was great. 😱

I feel like we're starting to come out of it now (the meltdowns are less frequent) but here's things that helped us:
Spotting triggers so avoiding being hungry, thirsty or tired
Turning things into a game (race against the baby to get ready, put a timer on YouTube and race against that)
Big up the big sibling role especially when talking to the baby
Loads of praise when DS did behave, drew a picture etc
Tell the baby off a few times so it's not just the older one getting the cross words
Any hitting, throwing, kicking is a swift remove from the situation and a firm no, explanation and the apology once calm (we dont do a naughty step because he won't bloody sit on it but will stay in his bedroom)

She can't help it. She's ill, she's going through the most stressful thing she could (birth of sibling, fear of being displaced), and she's at an age of disequilibrium (3.5). Stress also does terrible things to the body, which are magnified at these young ages.

My daughter went a bit crazy between 3 & 4 too during a stressful period for her, it was horrific at times, can't imagine how hard it would have been with a new sibling too.

She needs lots of grace, understanding, good food, sleep where possible, and time.

You sound quite negative about her. Is that coming across?

3.5 was a ghastly age for us too, also coincided with new sibling. My only advice is ride it out, keep up with the one-on-one, know that there are sunnier uplands ahead! 4 has been a lot better

From reading what you've said about about the recent change to her attending nursery due to unavoidable circumstances and this happening around the same time of the arrival of new baby it may be she is completely overwhelmed with the changes to her routines. Something small changing for them at that age can be a massive in their world and her outdoor activities as well as life indoors is completely different.

We only have one DD who is now 10 but she also went through really challenging tantrums at 3. Totally missed on the terrible twos so seemed like a blast to us at that stage. There was two techniques that worked for us. One was nipping the behaviour in the bud very quickly and telling her it was not acceptable and that she could sit on my/her dads knee and have a cuddle until she felt better and then we could move on with the day. This was quite effective, even when she reluctantly challenged it at first, she always seemed to give in quite quickly and nuzzled into us calming herself down through a cuddle.

The other was I created a small area in her room and told her it was an area that we or her by herself can come to if she is needing timeout to calm down. It was literally a little blanket with some teddies and a couple of books. I preferred this over a naughty step or leaving her to stew alone as that simply did not work for her or us and just make the situation escalate. Sometimes when she was ranting I would tell her to come to the quiet area (which she would refuse to) and I would just make my way there anyway and starting reading one of the books out loudly. This would last for a couple of minutes normally before she would make her way into the room and sit or stand listening before normally joining me on the blanket. We would then just sit there together reading and talking to the teddies until the emotions past. If there was behaviour we needed to talk about we would do it once calmness had resumed.

Try to get her back into her nursery routine as best as possible and maybe create a new activity / special daily walk /weekly activity that she can focus on and be excited about around all the other changes going on for her. Something as small as walking round the block for 10 mins everyday at the same time looking for special leaves or something. Just something new and special for only her and you/or dad.

Good luck and congratulations on the arrival of your new baby.

Hi everyone - thanks for your sympathy and advice. The days that followed by post have been much better - it's like we all needed to reach rock bottom the other day before we could move on!

Creating a little cuddly area for her may work - only problem is her room is so small. But sometimes she does retreat there herself when she's angry or upset, she cuddles teddies/lays next to/under her bed (don't ask haha) and if she can reach her dummies she gets them and sucks on them too (which I'm not happy about but it's only a few mins and calms her down). So making this more of an option may work - hopefully without the dummy though. She will often ask for cuddles on and off during her big meltdowns and me and DH always always cuddle her when asked.

She definitely does thrive on routine - I do too tbh. We tend to visit the same few playgroups every week etc. She's been to a few of her usual ones this week too which has helped things and hopefully we can continue all this and go back into her usual-ish routines.

I'm sure I did sound negative about her when I posted - I felt it! Her behaviour can be very challenging. Of course though I absolutely adore her and I could go on and on about the things I love about her as well. One of those things being how much she's immediately taken to her new baby sibling, she adores them and it's so cute to watch. As hard as her outburts have been I am glad the frustration has been aimed at me and DH (admittedly far more at DH) and not at all at the baby (so far!).

@SecondhandTable My 3.5yo is like this atm and it’s sooooo hard. Are things better now and what did you do to help improve/manage things? X

It's so nice to read that other people are going through the same thing with their 3yos. DD also missed out on the terrible 2s then DS arrived at 2.8yo and it was like a bomb went off and I thought I'd broken DD forever. She's now 3.5yo and things are getting better. Routine helps, keeping calm even when inside you are livid, a quiet space, firm boundaries while picking your battles and lots of love and understanding help a lot. My mum said a new sibling must feel like if your DH brought another wife home! I would be livid too!

It's also really nice to hear that 4yo can be much better as I've heard of the fearsome fours!