Hitting/shouting

[Staceyhannibal]

My 3.5 year old is out of control. When he is angry he hits me and shouts at me. I don’t believe in the naughty step, but when I have done it in the past he immediately comes off anyway, over and over again. I’ve tried talking to him, explaining, shouting, ignoring - I’m at the end of my tether.
His dad is very firm with him and he doesn’t behave like this with him.
I know that I’ve given in loads in the last year due to having a very stressful time, but how do I rein it back in? There is so much conflicting information out there now

Would you put them in their room out of the way.
I understand you don't agree with the naughty step, but if he's not stopping when you speak to him, you need to do something.

If he hits again after one warning, one of his toys is taken away and put in a box, there and then so he has a direct consequence to his actions, a 3 years old will understand that.

Mine is the same, suddenly at 3.5 she has become a banshee who will only communicate in screams and violence if something doesn't go her way. Shes usually very verbal and capable.

If distraction doesn't work I put her in her room. I give clear warnings beforehand I.e. if you do that one more time you're going to your room to calm down" and off she goes. Usually smacking me around the head as we go.

I try to get her down after 3 minutes but she's often not ready. Usually I sit at the bottom of the stairs and she'll come to me after 5-10 minutes for a cuddle and to say sorry.

I know 3 is a hard age and she's learning to communicate tricky feelings but intentionally trying to hurt me or her little brother crosses the line for me. I'll watch with interest if anyone has any better tips though!

When you say his dad is very firm with him, what do you mean? How does it differ from what you do?

Place marking as I'm in the same boat

Please MNetters give some tips

Hang in there OP!

Oh my god me too. I shout, she cries and I feel awful. I reason, she completely ignores me. Put her in the naughty corner, she laughs and runs away!!!!

She has had toys removed and that does stop her in her tracks but then she cries and gets so upset that I feel bad again. The mum guilt is real.

How long do I keep confiscated toys for??

@HalloHello

Oh my god me too. I shout, she cries and I feel awful. I reason, she completely ignores me. Put her in the naughty corner, she laughs and runs away!!!!

She has had toys removed and that does stop her in her tracks but then she cries and gets so upset that I feel bad again. The mum guilt is real.

How long do I keep confiscated toys for??

Confiscated toys stay for a day they are returned overnight but removed again if the behaviour happens again this time two days

Naughty steps and punishment really won’t work with a 3 year old. It’s about setting loving but firm boundaries. Think if there are particular trigger situations or time of day that this happens. With my two this would be tiredness or general overwhelm of busy playgrounds and lots of kids around. Try to notice the buildup and take them to a quiet place before it escalates. Also literally physically intercept their hand from landing on you. Don’t shame them.

I sympathise, that is difficult age.

Listen to Janet Lansbury’s podcast Unruffled, she also has a book No Bad Kids. I found her advice so helpful when my kids were that age.

When my children went to hit or did hit I would stop them physically not hurting them but holding there hands so they couldn't hurt me

‘Naughty’ step works for us 🤷‍♀️ (We just call it ‘the step’. A corner will also do) I never thought I’d use it - I remember watching supernanny pre-kids and thinking it was horrible, but honestly there aren’t really any practical alternatives for that age, unless there is something else you can withhold like a toy or a tv program - but that is then prolonged, the step is done in a few minutes (once they know they have to stay there). I suppose introducing it would be tough. But hitting is a definite no no for me - it would be straight on the step for that, no second spared. Most things it’s ‘if you do that again you will go on the step’ and that generally nips things in the bud.
Not sure from your post if you really ‘don’t believe in it’ as you say you’ve tried it. It sounds more like it just doesn’t work for you, but I’d bite the bullet and persist. You cannot have your child hitting and shouting at you, there really is no excuse as much as some people will try to make excuses and rationalise it. I work in a resource base at a primary school - physical violence towards staff will still land you with an exclusion. Special needs would have to be very severe to not understand that it’s a serious thing.
You could also try an alternative to hitting - a friend of mine taught her child to growl away his anger, as crazy as it sounds, just to release the tension… nursery apparently aren’t keen, but it’s preferable to hitting…

My 4 year old can have terrible outbursts and he has always been like that. I leave him in his room and let him get it all out of his system and then I go and comfort him and we talk about it later when he's ready to listen. I always remind myself that you can't fight fire with fire, calming down first is absolutely key.
You should hear the rubbish he comes out with "I'm gonna poo on your head", "I'm gonna flush you down the toilet"... the screaming is as if he's being tortured! It is SO tough OP, I totally feel for you! These little guys are just so young and don't know how to deal with their own disappointment or frustration so when all is well try and think of ways to help support that!

I am the parent of both a birth child and an adopted child. My adopted child has significant trauma and attachment issues.

I am a huge fan of Bruce Perry. He is a neuroscientist who writes a lot about child development and trauma (although a lot of his work is useful and relevant to neurotypical children). It might be helpful to look at his neurosequential model which I think is beautifully written about here

www.thetherapistparent.com/post/why-parents-need-to-understand-brain-development

Kids at 3 are unable to regulate their emotions and they need help with that. When these feelings become too big and overwhelming, you end up in a state in dysregulation and that’s when hitting and shouting occurs (think fight/flight etc). The best way is to co-regulate. Remove child from the overwhelming situation if need be. Using words such as “I wonder if you are feeling (name the need)” (Dan Hughes work). This will indicate if your child’s cognitive brain is engaged (for my son, it’s ab indicator if he is in a trauma response). It also opens up discussion. Rocking, humming, pacing all help to regulate child. Then discuss your feelings and theirs and how it is not tolerated: give examples of ways to regulate child eg I noticed your face go all red and you got angry; maybe we should lie down and listen to music when you feel like that or I saw your fists clenched when you were unhappy about… maybe a squeezy cuddle might help? After an outburst, I work on repairing the relationship when you are ready (could be straight away or the next day). Play favourite games and connect.

Another useful way to look at it before child dysregulates is window of tolerance. What were the triggers? Can you avoid them? Not necessarily or appropriate but can you do activities to help child stay in window of tolerance? You can find things on the Becon House website (I don’t have a link but it is very useful but specialises in trauma).

I don’t know if any of this helps but just my thoughts.

Try Time in. Much better than time out or "naughty" step. I don't believe when they act out, they are naughty, they are not at fault because they have "big" feelings they don't know how to cope. Your child need you to help to cope.

Time in would be sitting down with your child and talk/ chat.. for 3 minutes and say we do kind hands and we do not hit and then move on.

Acting out/ hitting behaviour = need connection and communication.

Really great advice on this thread.

@totallybored do you mean 3 minutes of kind behaviour immediately as a response to the bad?

My problem is getting DD to calm down in the first place; cortisol is running high and she can't process instruction so screams/hits/kicks... 🙈

We've used the naughty step for a long time and it work for us. If she hits we tell her firmly no and she needs to say sorry, and warning of the naughty step. If she doesn't say sorry or hits again it's straight on the naughty step and she's made to say sorry and then kiss and cuddle and carry on with the day. You need to be persistent with it otherwise it becomes completely useless - frustrating but needed. It sounds like you're the softer parent if he doesn't act up with dad (assuming that dad doesn't shout/smack etc) and knows he can get away with it.

@SylvesterTheCat

Really great advice on this thread.

@totallybored do you mean 3 minutes of kind behaviour immediately as a response to the bad?

My problem is getting DD to calm down in the first place; cortisol is running high and she can't process instruction so screams/hits/kicks... 🙈

When he scream/ hitting, put his hands down or grab something soft like pillow and hit that instead! Let him to express his feelings and you name his feeling. So when he is calm down while time in, you could say "I can see you are feeling angry/ cross" and lots of cuddles so that he can reflect himself that he felt angry.

It's all about communications and he doesn't know how he feels and he needs you to help.

Hope that helps

Firm but fair boundaries OP! It is really hard when you are trying to rein in back in but you will get there. Stay firm with the boundaries you set, don't give in when he tests them and you will start to see an improvement in behaviour. Also use your tone of voice firmly but calmly to show you mean business! At this point your DC needs to learn that he isn't going to getvaway with this behaviour anymore.

If you don't like the naughty step could you maybe use a time out place such as a cushion or a chair? I sometimes call it a 'pause place' or 'thinking spot' as this is less negative than naughty step. If he doesn't stay there then keep placing him on there until he gets the message (this may be a long tiring process but it will work eventually).

It will likely get worse before it gets better as your DC will test the new boundaries but remember it is his and your best interests to learn how to behave so even though it will be hard it is worth it. Sending you hugs

I had one like this and it was really tough, so sympathies. I don’t think anything we did really worked helped. The naughty step/time out and other punishments often made his behaviour worse. He would be so mad about being placed in time out he would refuse to apologise, so in the end we did a time out but didn’t ask for an apology. He eventually grew out of it around 7 and is now mostly a delight.
It’s all well posters like @Rosesareyellow saying there are no excuses for such behaviour but with some children it can be really tricky.
My other two have responded well to me just making it clear that that behaviour is unacceptable but they are both much more easy going children and less emotionally intense.