How can we possibly afford another baby?

[levan]

Currently struggling with this dilemma and would really appreciate support/suggestions. We currently have one dd. DP and I both work 4 days a week and look after dd one day each - she is at a childminder for the other three days. Life is great except for financially - paying the mortgage, bills and childcare is a constant struggle. We would dearly love another baby and don't want to wait too long due to my fairly advanced age! But I simply do not see how we can afford it and can't face spending my pregnancy worried sick about how we are going to cope with me going on maternity leave and then 2 lots of childcare. I know I should count my blessings, and I do every day, but is it really so greedy to want another baby? I just feel so resentful that despite leading a very frugal lifestyle it just does not seem to be an option

how old is dd?

Can you change career to earn more?
Can one of you go full time?
Would a nanny be cheaper for 2?
Would a nursery be cheaper for 2?
Could you move jobs to an employer with good maternity pay?
Can you cut costs in any way?
What if one of you was a sahp?
Can you do additional work?

Bear in mind that the second is cheaper if you already have things liek car seats and cots etc. And clothes.

I am very much looking forward to £700 a month reduction in childcare costs when dd goes to school next Sept, so sympathy.

This could be me writing the post! We were in EXACTLY the same position some years ago, after having dc1. We both worked, and we could just about manage the bills and childcare, but couldnt afford to double the childcare fees. We even got as far as visiting the bank manager and ecplaining our dilemna to him! ie- we wanted dc2 desperately but didn't know how to afford it! I think he was a little surprised to be talking babies rather than new cars/bigger house etc!!
Our only solution was to wait rather longer than we would have liked. We took out a loan to cover the time the two of them would be in childcare, but we left it long enough that dc1 would be in school before long. Sorry, that's probably not the answer you want to hear, but being realistic, if you're going to have sleepless nights over how you can manage, then you're not going to be able to enjoy another pregnancy/birth at the moment are you?
It's SOOO tough, I really feel for you. The hardest thing was when friends of ours started on number 2, and were able to manage on one income, or used family for free childcare. It makes you realise that life isn't fair!! But in then long term, everything WILL work out, and you'll have the satisfaction of knowing that you and your partner have achieved it through your joing efforts.

*joint efforts

Is there any room for cutting back expenses at all? Possible areas might include moving to a cheaper area to lower your mortgage/rent and council tax, running a more economical car (assuming you have one at all), not going out, no new clothes or stuff etc. But I guess you've probably already explored all those options.
Is there any chance you and your dp could increase your income? Could you look for better paid jobs, do more overtime, or even take a second job in the evenings or at weekends when the other one is at home etc?
How big is your house? Could you let out a room?

Would you be better off if one worked and one stayed at home so there would be no childcare fees? It would mean your CTC would go up too.
Without childcare costs babies are pretty cheap IMO.
We have 4 kids and a very small income, especially after the mortgage goes out. Can't afford new shiny things or holidays or a car but they don't matter compared to the kids.

wow,thanks for all the responses! DD is 18 mths. Unfortunately I can't stay at home as DP is self employed and his income is quite uncertain - also has no pension, income protection etc. (yes that's another issue....). If DP stayed at home my income would nowhere near cover the outgoings. We have a small house with no spare room, very rarely go out, all our clothes are charity shop or hand downs (in DD's case!). Sounds as though I'm whinging but I'm not, I don't mind about any of these things, I just mind about always worrying how we're going to pay next months bills. I know the sensible thing would be to wait a while, but I just feel so broody and am worried that if we waited it could be too late.

OK, so what does your DP do?

The broodiness is normal but it comes and it goes. My DS is 4.4 now and I've been in and out of those phases of wanting another one since he was born. Again, money was the main reason we put it off time and again. Followed by moving abroad, too much disruption etc. We're thinking about it more seriously now, not because we are better off financially than before, but because we have reached a more stable stage in our lives.

But saying that I've always thought that there is no perfect time to have a baby. If you are struggling you will still manage to get by and feed your kids, which is all hat matters, really. If you are better off there will still be things that keep you awake at night. Living in a country like the UK (which I assume you do) you are lucky enough to have a system that will help your family if things get truly tough financially.

How would you feel about waiting a little longer until your DD is in school?

if you only have one income Levan then you might get WFC (I think you get it under about 15 grand a year. We did) and with two children and one income the child tax credit goes up.
We've never had any spare money as dh does the sole income while I stayed at home. Now dh doesn't work either as he's a carer but we don't get any income support so pay the mortgage/bills etc out of CTC and DLA.
I'm not saying leap into debt or what have you but if you truly want another child do you want to risk being 'too ancient' one day when you feel better off?
I spose I didn't think about cost when I had another baby (with 2 and 3) because I wasn't losing any income as I was at home, no childcare costs and they didn't cost anymore until school uniform time came round (well food obviusly)
We don't have a car and don't go on holidays either. When the older 3 were little we went camping cos its cheap. DH still shudders at the sound of a zip cos he really hated camping
Would your childmindr do a discount rate for 2 if you do go ahead? I'm guessing the older one might start playgroup/nursery in a year?

The 12.5 hours of free preschool you get at 3 yo is due to go up to 15 hours soon, which would cut down on the amount of childcare you'd have to pay for DD. If you wait until she is 3 to have the next one by the time you finished Mat Leave you wouldn't have 2 lots of fees to find IYSWIM.

ooh when does it go up to 15 hours per week?

I really feel for you. Can only suggest that you see an Independent Financial Advisor to find out if you can switch mortgages etc. to make a little more money.

Do either of you have any family who could help out financially (or in kind by doing a bit of childcare, cutting down on say a session a week you have to find from costs)

Or how about one of you stays at home and becomes a registered childminder? Not easy but maybe it would be enough to replace one income?? (Don't know how the financials of this work out, mind you, but I've heard of people doing it.)

Thanks so much everyone. There obviously aren't any easy answers but it helps to know others are in the same boat. Does anyone know when it does go up to 15 hrs because this would help a bit

Goes up to 15 hours by 2010

"an increase in the entitlement to free nursery education for all three and four year olds to 15 hours a week for 38 weeks a year, reaching all children by 2010" from Budget 2004 HMRC

I noted this because my DD will be 3 in 2010.

It is a gradual rollout though so your area might see it sooner.

from the Guardian:

Authorities to offer 15 hours from September 2008

Hackney
Lambeth
Brent
Wolverhampton
Liverpool
Salford
Kirklees
Middlesbrough
North East Lincolnshire
Luton
Durham
Southampton
Nottingham City
Cornwall

Authorities already offering 15 hours of free childcare

Worcestershire
Derbyshire
Leeds
Rochdale
Blackburn & Darwen
Sheffield
Telford
Hampshire
Peterborough
Gloucestershire
Haringey
Sunderland
York
So merset
Greenwich
Hertfordshire
Leicestershire
Newham
Slough
Blackpool

Also, when it goes up to 15 hours this is supposed to be divided over a minimum of 3 days, so you could have 5 hours childcare a day for your older child.

Or how about both you and your partner going down to 3 days each a week? If he is self-employed maybe one if his days could be at the weekend, and then you wouldn't need childcare at all. When I went down from full-time to 4 days a week, I've only ended up losing about 130pounds a month in my salary as I'm paying less in tax (although this may only work if your income is as pitiful as mine to start with!, plus we got more in benefits.

Also, the second child won't cost as much as the first initially at least as you'll already have the cots, pram, clothes etc.

shameless hijack, apologies in advance
this 15 hours a week is fab news...mashedupmum, would you be so kind as to give me the link to suss out areas, as we're moving just next to kirklees next year, and we're planning on #2 (although ds 1 is only 14 months)
i like to plan these things ahead!
many thanks.
oh and levan FWIW, the idea of your DH dropping weekday and doing a weekend day is a good'un....if he can, it might work out for you
i'm self-employed, and weekend days are often VERY handy indeed if you've go a backlog

Hi Minominou, Sorry only just logged back on.
We got a leaflet about it with DD's Bookstart pack (age 13 months satchel) which just picked up the other day, but I'll try and find a link to it.

I havent read all the answers so excuse me if I am repeating anything. We are in a similar position and have changed our mortgage to an interest only where we just pay part of the capital. I am not suggesting this is a great move from a long term perspective but it meets our needs here and now. I am preg with DC2 so by the time he/she is 3 my eldest will be at school. I can see light at the end of the tunnel with regard to sheeling out for childcare. We currently pay nearly £500 for one child. By the time they are both at school we shoudl have enough to overpay in order to make up for the time we have been underpaying.

Do you have friends nearby with kids a similar age that you could do a chilcare swap with? I used to work 3 days a week and so did a friend of mine with a similar aged son, we each worked 3 different days and had each others kids on the days we werent working. Its hard work! but means free childcare! You could do it for a day or 2 of the week if you couldnt manage more than that. HTH