Please tell me it gets easier....

[Cakeandslippers]

I've got a 15mo and an almost 3yo and neither will sleep! Please someone tell me it gets better eventually?

The 15mo is breastfeeding (trying to wean but not going well) and just wants me constantly. He barely sleeps in the day and wakes up constantly, I'm forced to bedshare even though I hate it as I just couldn't function getting up every 45 minutes. We have a good bedtime routine but it still takes over an hour of crying to get him to sleep - we've had sleep consultant advice and have tried everything, nothing helps.

The 2yo is a bit better now but rarely sleeps through, often up for a couple of hours in the night. Stalls with all her might at bedtime too, often tantrums, so it's just all really bloody hard.

I just want to have an evening. I want to eat a hot meal without being interrupted by a screaming baby. I'm desperate to be able to go out in the evening and not come home to a baby who's been screaming at his dad since I went out. I don't even care if they sleep through or not I just need it be less of an all encompassing issue where we're both so, so tired.

No sleep advice please, heard and tried it all, I suspect some of you will think I haven't and/or we're too permissive etc but honestly my children just don't seem to respond to anything related to sleep.

Please someone tell me you've been here and it gets better. Sleep has dominated my life for almost 3 years now and I just need to know it will get better please 🙏

It absolutely will get better.. I've not been where you are but stuff with kids always goes in waves.
Can you try and accept it's a bit rubbish atm to try and feel less hett up about it, you may find if you go with it you'll feel happier. It sounds really hard though especially when they all want you.

It gets way better. Personally I'd stop weaning as he doesn't sound ready. I waited until mine was and it was easier. Also meant I coukd breastfeed to sleep in bed with them laying down which took 10 mins. I started watching things on an ipad behind him with headphones so it became something I looked forward to as a little break!

Eventually when sxhool starts the older one will be tired and sleep....its not as far away as you think!

Thank you. @MumOfBoys16 I do try, but it's hard because it's so all encompassing and I feel so exhausted and crap all the time. I just need some time to be me rather than just a mum as its been especially bad for about 11 months now and I feel like I've lost myself and everyone has forgotten me, friends go out and I just sit at home trying to stop my toddlers crying. Not trying to be woe-is-me I'm just struggling to work out how I can be more accepting of it all without giving up other things in my life (no idea if that makes sense!).

@Morechocmorechoc is so hard, I fed my daughter till 2y2m but this boy is so much and I can't cope anymore. He scratches, pinches, bites and will only go about 10 minutes between feeding, grabs at my top and has a complete meltdown when I ask him to wait, he's very extreme. I'd be happy to carry on a while but not like this and cutting down just isn't working. He won't really feed to sleep either unless he's so tired he physically can't fight it.

I know you said no sleep advice but in my opinion, if sleep consultant advice: training hasn't worked then you
Need to rule out food intolerances/ allergies. Possibly silent reflux too

Just to add though mine are 4.5 and 2.5 and it's getting easier - I can see light now!

@needtogetfit21 thank you. Yes we've done that, have spoken with GP and HV, trialed cutting out various foods and gaviscon etc but nothing had any effect and no other symptoms.

Did you cut out for 6 weeks? In your diet as well as the childs?

@needtogetfit21 yes a couple of times for cow's milk and soya, also did egg. My daughter has just grown out of cmpa so I know all about it from the dietician. He has no symptoms of anything and sleeps fine at childminder so I'm pretty sure it's behavioural.

I have a 3 year old who's a bit of a "tricky sleeper" and a 4 year old who's just started school. Dad has taken to sleeping in the spare room because there just isn't room for all of us in our bed.
Both the kids have their own rooms, then both fall asleep in their own rooms - but usually end up in my bed by midnight. That said - we all do get solid chunks of sleep, it's just this seems to be the only way that we've managed it.

I guess what I'm saying is..find what routine/ set up/ arrangement whatever it is that works for you, and just go with it. We've tried sleep consultations etc as well, and this about as good as it's gotten. I know it's frustrating - most of my other friends all have their kids sleeping in their own bedrooms all night...we're just not one of them! So you're not alone! X

As soon as I saw the thread title I knew your DC would be those ages. Worst stage!
By the time they are 2 and 4 it is definitely easier. Hang in there

@Cakeandslippers do you have anyone to watch them while you go away for a day or two> Might help with weaning.

I'd wean hard core (cold turkey) even if it means a few bad nights. Personally I love breast feeding BUT my older weaned himself when I got pregnant with 2nd at about 11m and the 2nd baby is still small but I am introducing bottles because I love my sleep.

I'd go away for a few days to wean the younger. I would give a go to another sleep expert with the 3yo. Being awake at night for "a couple of hours" is a no-go for your mental health, you must be desperate for sleep! Seriously that would kill anyone. The older must sleep through, the younger needs to get a bottle and you need hot dinner with wine and some off time.

So my eldest DS was always a pretty crap sleeper, but from 4 months onwards it got progressively worse and worse and at 15 months he was waking every half an hour all night. He was exhausted and so were we. We’d tried everything except harsh (in my opinion, don’t shoot) sleep training. In the end I snapped and sent him to my parents’ for the night just so DP and I could get some sleep. The little $£&!? slept through for 14 hours solid! At that stage I knew it was behavioural and in a way that made it easier because I knew there was nothing wrong IYSWIM. Now he’s nearly 4 and he sleeps through. It did get easier. I can’t remember when. But one day I realised it didn’t consume my friends any more, I didn’t dread bedtime and the nights. I could go to the pub with my friends and I knew I wouldn’t come home to carnage. Hang in there. And ask for as much help as you can. Sending you love x

Oh and I was BF all night long too! I night weaned for my sanity and replaced it with rocking & patting so DP could share the load.

Thanks everyone. I needed to hear these positive stories, maybe one day I'll be able to be more than just a mum.

@ZooKeeper19 I'm considering going to my parents for a few days with the older one so my husband can deal with the younger one for a bit. Timing wise it'll be a bit tricky for a couple of months for various reasons but it's definitely an option. I'm fine with the older one, we are so used to it that we can manage that and function ok, it just makes it harder to deal with the younger one which is where the real problem is.

Omg @Floopyandtired it sounds as if you are describing my boy! I'm sure if I sent him to grandparents he'd do the same, he naps brilliantly there. I'm so glad it got better for you. If you don't mind me asking, how did you manage to wean at night?

15 months is ready for weaning. In fact, way overdue! At some stage you have to put yourself first.

I found once i had given up trying to change things, accepted that everything was shit, it got slightly easier as you are saving your energy for getting through it not fighting it.

I have been there and done that, OP, and got the tee shirt. Hang on in there because it absolutely does get better. It takes time though. I was in a permanent fog when my two were those ages (14m age gap) and the second was so incredibly clingy - breastfeeding throughout the night with multiple wake ups, and then my older DC regressed with all the commotion and noise and had wake ups too. But hang on in there. It gets better. I promise. I have no real advice, as nothing with us seemed to work (!) but after a while things seemed to settle down. It helped to quit breastfeeding and the night wake ups decreased gradually.
I’m just trying to send support and reassurance. It gets better! Can your partner step up and help with evenings and overnights even one or two nights a week?

It's hard as it is having two so close together. Without the lack of sleep etc.

You mentioned a CM, are you working? Can you take a few days off, dump both of the kids with the CM and just spend a few days on yourself? This is actually what my plan was for today but DS2 has decided to have the shits

I stopped cold turkey with my 16 month old. He sounds like yours, constant feeding day and night, scratching pinching and biting , he was rough! I got to the stage when he was feeding I wanted to slap him off 😬 coupled with NO SLEEP and other dcs I was losing my mind.
I wore pyjamas and a bra and a polo top to bed and gave him no access at all. It was rough for a couple of days and I felt guilty as I knew I could end the crying really quickly, but play the long game and stand firm.

I really think stopping bf would help his sleep and your sleep and would certainly help you feel more like your old self again.

We have had a similar issue with our eldest (7 now) she just doesn’t sleep. Our youngest (5 now) has no issues at all, he asks to go to bed and always has since he could. 7 just doesn’t seem to need sleep, at first it was crying all night, then it was sneaking downstairs or needed the loo every five minutes.

It got easier once she stopped the crying, but then became more frustrating that she wasn’t getting enough sleep, we felt like this made us bad parents and we mustn’t be tiring her out enough (funny how we always find was to blame ourselves).

It was a teacher at school on parents evening just before covid hit that help us put it into perspective. We are sat there apologising that she must always be tired and that we try and get her to sleep and she just said that she’s probably the most energetic child in class and there’s no sign that she’s tired at all.

That’s when we realised that she’s just one of those mythical people who doesn’t need much sleep. We decided to try and just embrace it, instead of getting wound up over her not sleeping when she comes down and says she can’t sleep we go and read a story or play a game, just a quick game that’s educational, she’s a big fan of magic maths by orchard games. Then she she goes off to bed and is calmer, maybe not asleep but she is far less restless.

Since we started this she now calms better overall in bed, it’s like she has learnt to switch off, she still doesn’t sleep but its a much better experience. At first we where concerned that pandering to her (as we thought of it) would mean we would loose our time, in reality it’s five minutes (maybe ten at the most) and we are all happier for it.

Is every night perfect, heck no! but we have wayyyyy more better nights now.

We had 3 under 3.

It does get easier, you're right in the worst of it now. Have low standards, get through. Survival. Make sure you get time to yourself every day, even if it's an hour to lay in bed and scroll on your phone or go to the shops and get a bit of peace.
It absolutely gets easier, especially as their understanding improves, they become better company and are out of nappies.
I don't miss that age one bit!

Thank you everyone. @Notashandyta I'm in awe of anyone who manages 3 under 3, 2 under 2 has nearly finished me off!

@TheFamilyNook I do wonder if my DS is like this - he really doesn't seem to get tired. My DD always fought sleep but she's get so grumpy and tired so it was quite different.

@ACNHMAMA sorry your day off got derailed, yes I have booked some time off next month - I am keeping my fingers firmly crossed there is no covid outbreak / D&V incident / chickenpox / bizarre lockdown imposed on my street as I strongly suspect it'll go wrong but all fingers crossed that it doesn't!

@NatriumChloride thank you, this is what I needed to hear. Dh is great, he does loads, but DS just really struggles to settle for him and so even though he goes and does it, hearing the crying for an hour doesn't do much for my stress levels (and as you say, waking the sibling is really frustrating).

I disagree with DillyDolly, kids are all ready to wean at different ages. However if it's this stressful for you and he's fighting like fhat it clearly isn't working. I would go cold turkey in your scenario. I woukdnt leave the house at the same time though for days as that may be too much stress and change, but def let dp do bed times and feeds and stay away from those.

Good luck, you'll feel better when it's done.

Also stick with it and don't give in to the crying, it will pass! Put the TV on loud and white noise for sibling.