Help with the Hakka

[MintGreenLife]

Just started using the Hakka today as finding breastfeeding really difficult at 12 weeks and hoping being able to offer a bottle of expressed milk will help. A few questions…

• does it need to be sterilised after every single use?
• I’m boiling it as per the instructions to sterilise, but it seems to be catching slightly and going brown on the edges, is this normal?!
• when using it after removing my nipple had gone slightly blue! Again, normal, or a cause for concern?

Thanks x

@DominicRaabsTravelAgent thanks for your reply 💕 it was just a slight posterior tongue tie in the first place, so think it’s all gone now. Not been to a local BF support group but am a member of their FB group, I’m not sure if they are meeting up currently but will look into that x

Sorry I came on this thread thinking it was to do with the All Blacks🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻

@JasonMomoasgirlfriend thanks for replying ☺️ Do you mind if I ask what the signs were of silent reflux in your LO? DS did initially get hiccups a lot, coughing after feeding, grunting/straining/farting when on his back at night, but most of that has improved, we just still can’t put him down to sleep. We’ve been doing the sleep shifts for about a month now and have to commit 12 hours a day to sleeping just to get 5-6 hours each, it’s pretty miserable 😭

@Kayjay2018 how does that happen? Is it common? I’ll look up the Koala, thanks 😊 x

The laying down was the absolute biggest thing for me. It was the fact we had to hold him upright for so long and any time we tried to lay down he was crying like in pain.

Yes the sleep thing is the thing that takes the to. That's why I resorted to sleeping more upright with him on me. It worked really well but I can understand folk not wanting to do what I did.

@BlackberrySt sorry to hear you’ve been having such a rubbish time with BF too, it’s just heartbreaking isn’t it 😭 I’ve been meaning to try expressing regularly and offering a bottle of BF a few times a day for ages now, but because I can’t put him down I can’t get my head around how/when I can sterilise and physically pump.

I think like you we need to come up with a different approach to feeding, as this just isn’t working. Did you get your DS’s tongue tie snipped? I was so sure that would be the answer, but honestly things seem to have just gotten worse! X

@JasonMomoasgirlfriend sounds like you had. A similar experience to us with the jaundice. We were readmitted three times, and eventually referred to the prolonged jaundice clinic, where they found he also had raised liver enzymes. Only a couple of weeks ago did we finally get some good news that his bloods were normalising, and all the possible causes they were checking for came back negative. We were on a feeding plan in the hosp too where I was expressing and giving breast milk top ups. My labour wasn’t long, but I was pushing for 2 hours and ended up with W forceps delivery. That’s amazing you managed for two years! Thanks for your honest advice, I’d hate to look back and feel like we were all miserable just because I insisted on continuing breastfeeding x

@JasonMomoasgirlfriend I would just be so worried about him slipping off me in the night. I honestly don’t know what the answer is though. Maybe silent reflux is the issue and I need to give the Gaviscon another try. The only thing I have noticed is that in the day when we change his nappy or put him flat on his back under his activity gym he’s absolutely fine. I hold him upright at night for at least half an hour after feeds, but it doesn’t seem to make any difference x

@MintGreenLife I was told by the lactation consultant (she was also a midwife and tongue tie person- don't know correct terminology) that the roof of the mouth is shaped by the babies tongue action before they are born so if the tongue is tied it cannot help with the shaping. She didn't say it happens with everyone but when she was feeling in my daughters mouth she called it out as she said the tongue tie being snipped may actually have little impact on our feeding issues due the her having this high roof. She also advised I'd need to watch her during weaning as it would be easier for her to get food stuck up there.

With the koala hold you sit up (cushions etc behind your back) and have the baby facing you (almost mirroring you) with their mouth at their boob. My daughter still likes to start her evening feed that way but that's usually as she likes to choose which boob to start from. Have a look on you tube as I'm sure there is a video showing it.

We did still offer top ups (30ml) after every feed - mainly formula as my boobs don't like expressing until she was weaning, that again was recommended as it's easier to replace a 30ml top up of formula with expresses milk than one bottle of formula at some point during the day.

I hope you find something that works for you, as mum of a teen who was completely formula bottle fed due to a severe tongue tie and a toddler who was combi fed, just making sure they are fed is all your little one needs (and be kind to yourself, the newborn days are quite stressful, a happy mum is very important too)

The guilt is awful! It’s good to remember you’re trying to do your best by your child but certain things, like tongue tie or allergy are out of your control. It is exhausting too, there was a time I couldn’t have a shower without DS staring to scream, he was hungry all the time. Must be even worse if he won’t be held by anyone else. We also had to do night shifts for a while, it’s soul destroying.

If you want to express more, giving a few bottles of formula doesn’t mean you’ve failed. It’s just you buying yourself some breathing space while you get to grips with pumping. Formula is handy for getting a head start and being able to express good portion sizes of milk?

Could your partner take DS out in the car or for a walk to give you time to express?

My DS was having 150ml formula a day but I’ve been able to drop that and only give him expressed milk as I’ve got better at expressing.

Are you in this FB group btw? It might be worth joining m.facebook.com/?_rdr#!/groups/1346569932113892/?ref=group_browse hope that link works. If not it’s called Breastfeeding and Lactation Support UK.

I also worried about CMPA and trying formula by the way - in the end I did give him some formula while getting used to expressing and it was fine. I did cut out dairy for a while because of the green bloody poos but I think it was a foremilk/hindmilk imbalance. In retrospect, he had lots of formula in hospital so I probably shouldn’t have worried about an allergy.

Haven’t had the TT snipped as the health visitor said it was minor and the tube feeding after birth was probably the reason DS struggles - I do keep wondering about it though!

For what it’s worth you sound like you’re a really committed Mum and I bet you’re doing a great job even if it’s hard to feel that way when there are problems 🙂

The absolute best advice I have ever been given when baby fusses at the boob (off and on, screaming etc) is to stand up and feed for a bit! I have no idea why it works but it does! You can sit back down after a few minutes.

Yeh I totally understand, it is a risk of course.

I'm really trying to remember but I think my son was actually ok on the play mat etc but I wonder if it's because I kept him upright for doing long after feeds. I honestly don't think gaviscon does anything. It really was a waiting game until the tummy valve became strong.

Yes, my DS was almost at risk of needing a blood transfusion because his jaundice levels were so high. I had also pushed for 2 hours on top of the 72 hour labour and I just think because of all that and having not slept at all or eaten much at all and barely drank that whole time resulted in the issues which led to breastfeeding problems :( I wish it had gone well and I think then I'd have enjoyed BF but it just never went the way I thought it would.
And then further down the line it all falls to you, every night feed, every feed out at lunch etc

I don't want to put you off I just want to let you know that it's ok to stop or switch to expressing only if you aren't enjoying it.
X

@BlackberrySt I think since I had him I’ve managed once to have a shower without him screaming in the background 😢 I can’t even brush my teeth without getting someone else to hold him as I find the crying way to stressful.

I’m constantly trying to riddle out what’s going on with him, but perhaps this is just him and there’s no real reason! That’s great advice regarding using formula a few times while I get on top of pumping, and at least if I tried it and he took it OK then I know it’s there as a backup when I desperately need it. My sister in law came over this evening to help just so I could get some sleep. He had been screaming all day unless latched on, and was fussing at the breast for hours at a time. She took him and he slept on her for 6 hours! That’s the longest stretch of sleep and the longest he’s gone without feeding we’ve ever had! To be fair he had been awake all day long apart from a 10 min nap after I rocked him to sleep, so think he was just completely exhausted 😢

Thank you, it’s hard sometimes when they are so unsettled to not feel like you’re doing something wrong isn’t it 😭

Am a member of that FB group already, thanks for thinking of me though xx

@Kayjay2018 that’s great it was spotted and you were given advice on how to deal with it. Ohh I’ve tried that position before actually but I just found it awkward, although very possible I wasn’t doing it right as just sort of freestyled. I’ll have a look online and give it another go x

@sylbunny this actually does help us - I get up and rock him and feed at the same time when he’s fussing, and most of the time he eventually gets drowsy at the breast which enables me to sit back down and finish the feed. How strange that standing up helps, who knows why! I do find the only time he fusses is when he’s wide awake, so if I can get him to be sleepy while feeding that helps x

@JasonMomoasgirlfriend sometimes when he’s fussing these days he actually wants to be lay on his back to have a kick around, so in the day I don’t always wait the full 30 mins before I put him down. It’s things like that that makes it so confusing - to me it looks like he’s happy on his back in the day, but not at night.

You must have been incredibly exhausted after all of that. I was induced due to my waters leaking from 34 weeks, and to be honest I think I went into my birth feeling completely exhausted from all the worry as they got me to keep going until 37 weeks with twice weekly monitoring and bloods. I had a 5 night hospital stay during that period too. I found the jaundice terrifying and the whole situation so upsetting and exhausting, even though I kept being told it was common and nothing to worry about.

That all makes a lot of sense. Admittedly I am struggling and something has to change. My mum is going to come and help me this week, so I’ll really try and get ahead with the pumping and hope that helps us. In the past when I’ve pumped and given a bottle he’s then wanted to BF afterwards anyway, so it didn’t really help, but there must be a way of stopping him want to latch on to me after a bottle feed! X

@MintGreenLife I did have very mixed feelings giving him those 1st bottles of formula, he was so happy chugging them down, making little satisfied sounds and curling his toes up. Sad and guilty he wasn’t reacting in the same way to breastfeeding, happy that he was enjoying it, relief that there was another option. It’s hard being the sole provider of food when it’s not working well, especially as you get told over and over how good breastfeeding is for your baby. But yes the formula does buy some breathing space. And your DS will still be getting all the benefits of breastmilk the rest of the time.

I try to think of giving him expressed milk as offering the 2nd breast. I’ll often breastfeed him until he’s sleepy and stops drinking, then give the bottle. He does usually manage 60-120ml from the bottle which shows just how little he’s getting from me directly 😕

Is your DS gaining weight ok? Mine was gaining but slowly. The feeding team HV who came out to see us basically took one look at my boy, decided he wasn’t starving and didn’t seem bothered about helping with practical suggestions after that. It’s easy for health professionals to say they’ll grow out of something or it’s just normal newborn fussiness. I bet a lot of the time they’re right. I just thought it’s not right my DS has had green diarrhoea for days on end. I think at 12wks the length of time you’re feeding does sound long? If it’s cluster feeding, then it’s extreme cluster feeding (poor you!).

Expressing isn’t an easy option- I can’t just crawl back into bed after feeding and settling him, I have to express. Still better than having a hungry baby. He is sleeping longer now and it’s kind of a miracle he’ll do it it in his own bed at night, he just randomly started doing that. I’m sitting up tonight though hoping he’ll do the poo he’s really straining to pass haha or else he’ll just writhe and grunt and none of us will be able to sleep.

Sorry I’ve been wittering on lots and not sure how much of this is helpful! It does sound like you need a break though. Good on your sister in law for sitting with him for so long 🙂

@BlackberrySt I’m almost afraid of this! That he will have the formula, enjoy it and seem really satisfied, and then I’m going to feel like I’ve been selfish making him breastfeed all this time 😢

See my LO’s weight gain is good, or so I’m told. Because of the issues he’s been weighed white frequently. The last weigh in he had gained 14oz in 10 days, is following his percentile line and is over 5 pounds up on his birth weight. He was 6lb12, and is now around 12lb4, so we’re not far off doubling birth weight. That just adds to the confusion for me, as he’s getting what he needs, and his nappies are normal, it just seems to take us an awful long time for him to feed. I’ve actually found the breastfeeding support that my HV arranged really good, sorry you haven’t found the same. Although tbh she was very anti the idea of me trying formula, which wasn’t helpful. She was convinced it was his tongue tie causing the issues, but we are almost two weeks post snip and no improvement so far.

What I’m thinking is maybe I’ll try formula once or twice, if he takes it well I may think about a regular bottle a day, a couple of bottles of expressed milk a day, and then possibly cosleeping and feeding him laying down. He feeds to sleep in the night and will be sleeping beautifully on me, then as soon as I move him he wakes up, so perhaps cosleeping and feeding laying down so I don’t really have to move him might mean I can actually get some sleep 😅

Mine does the grunting and squirming at night time too. At one point it was near enough constant when put down, but seems to be improving slightly. Does yours do it often? It’s crazy how noisy they can be!

You’re not wittering on! It’s nice to have someone to talk to about all of this, and in the early hours 😅 as much as I wouldn’t want anyone else to have to go through all this, it’s nice to know you’re not alone x

Yes I bet you were absolutely exhausted from all that. That is a long time to go through uncertainty and the unknowns etc..it's all very worrying and takes a toll. And 5 night in hospital must've been hell. I was back in for two nights and it was bad enough...poor you! I also got terrible upset when we went in for the jaundice treatment. I didn't know what to expect, it was the day my milk came in and I think that was day 4 with the baby blues that kicked in. So when I saw Ds having the mask put on him...oh my god I cried and cried.
I imagine that's how you felt too.

You're doing sooo well though! Deffo take advantage of your mum coming!

@JasonMomoasgirlfriend I feel like I’ve not recovered from any of it if I’m honest. The five night stay was before i even had him. With my induction and the jaundice we were in for 10 nights too. He started having the light therapy treatment just 12 hours after he was born, and in all honesty I think I was too dazed from the birth to really register what was happening. Safe to say when he rebounded twice there were lots of tears.

Thanks so much. Really hope I can get things back on track with breastfeeding. Something has to change as we can’t go on like this! Xx

Jeez you really have been through the mill.

I don't like thinking back to that time, it makes me feel really emotional. What is meant to be a special time is hindered with all these issues that you just don't expect or even know about it.

Whatever happens, your baby will be fine. Whether that's BF, expressed of formula. I always think things get better in 3 month stages and also just when you are at the end of your rope for one issue, something changes! It's just hard getting to that point. My boy has always adapted to whatever issue just at the tipping point for me.

Wishing you all the best x

@MintGreenLife oh man and I thought the 7 days we spent in hospital was rough, couldn’t imagine doing double that, what a marathon. Felt like I spent most of my hospital stay semi naked and crying haha. Actually that’s what the first 6weeks at home were like too. Hormones and sleep deprivation...

Totally understand the worry he might prefer a bottle- you want them to ‘want you’. DS does sometimes now refuse to settle on breast but will take a bottle which makes me sad. We haven’t done pace feeding though when we really should’ve, might be worth thinking about? However he still settles quicker on me than partner and feeds better from the bottle too. I try to snuggle him into my chest when feeding so it’s cuddly.

I think giving a few bottles a day is a good plan. Using some formula does help you build up a small stash of expressed milk, I usually have an extra bottle or couple of bottles made up in the fridge now. We gave the formula as his 10pm feed as in theory it fills them up for longer. He seems to sleep the same now on expressed milk only though?

I think cosleeping might be worth a shot too 🙂

If you like I could share our ‘schedule’? My DS sounds easier to put down than yours and we do feed bottles at most feeds now as well as breastfeeding so might not be that relevant but if you’re interested I could type it out?

DS didn’t do a 5am poo in the end! We had to put up with grunty lad until after his next meal at 7am when he had a poo explosion. He tends to sleep ok during the first part of the night now, but becomes ‘goat boy’ once he’s had his 3-4am feed. Hopefully he’ll grow out of this soon. It’s ok if you manage to fall asleep between grunts! He’s not awake, just noisy. I suspect the grunting is partly to do with wanting to be picked up, he can be grunting and wriggling like mad so I pick him up for a cuddle or feed and he drops into a deep sleep.

Oh last thing- I worried that he wouldn’t fall asleep without breastfeeding as that’s how we always got him to sleep. Turns out bouncing on an exercise ball works brilliantly. It makes a change from sitting on the sofa too.

@JasonMomoasgirlfriend I feel the same. I find it hard to look at the first photos we took after he was born, as he’s so battered and bruised from the forceps. Hopefully one day I’ll feel happy looking at them.

We seem to be having a much better day today, and I feel more positive now I have a plan in place. Think I maybe need to work at undoing some bad habits we’ve developed, and pumping is going well, so fingers crossed things improve. Wishing you all the best too, and thanks for the chat ☺️ Xx

@MintGreenLife one final thing from me is to consider a cranial osteopath. My daughter has had 2 blocks of sessions. Sometimes the birth experience can cause a few niggles, DD had some tension in one side of her neck which was sorted and she also had bad trapped wind over night (she would scream and writhe around and when I put her on her tummy she sounded like a deflating balloon). I obviously cannot say they solve all issues, we found them useful