How to handle full blown tantrums? Feel like I’m not coping.

[Magik01]

Hi, just as the title says really. I have DS1 who will be three next month and DS2 who is nearly six weeks old. I’m not sleep well at all due to baby. But I feel like I’m really not coping with having two children.

DS1 tantrums are terrible and come completely out of nowhere. He will literally do the opposite of what DH and I say. For example, yesterday he asked for a bagel as he was hungry so I made him one. Cue

DS1: “don’t want bagel then”
Me: “ok then” and start to take it away.
DS1 “want bagel then”

And repeat a million times while he has a meltdown because he doesn’t know if he wants the bagel or not. Or today, we went out to a soft play with my sister to keep him occupied while I had baby. Cue meltdown of wanting juice and not wanting juice, wanting to sit on mummy and not wanting too, wanting to go home and not wanting too. And I mean full blown screaming at the top of his lungs and I don’t even know what triggers it. I ignore him when he’s like that, but deep down I’m so frustrated and I get home and sob because I’m so sleep deprived and really don’t like DS1 when he’s like that. Which makes me feel like a terrible mum.

I stuffed with PND the first time around and feel like I’m heading that way again if it carries on. I don’t know what to do.

With the bagel or juice I would leave in his reach and calmly say it’s there if he wants it. I should imagine having a brand new sibling is the reason for the outbursts. Offer him lots of cuddles and reassurance and hopefully it’ll resolve soon!

@DownWhichOfLate I wish it was just that however he’s been doing it for a few months. However I do agree the new sibling probably hasn’t helped. What would you do when it’s not food related? Like today at soft play when he’s running after me screaming (I was waking around) then when I kneel down to hug him he’s screaming no and running off. It’s just very Jacyl and Hyde at the minute.

My son is nearly 3, his tantrums got worse after his sister was born earlier this year. I've found the only thing that works is making him go into his room for 1 to 2 minutes and holding the door. It may sound cruel but I'm consistent with it when it needs to be done and nothing else works and it makes him snap out of it. I find it upsetting as it upsets him but I use it as a last resort usually if hes constantly hitting because cant have own way etc. I also try to use self pity, I.e poor poor mummy (pretend cry) if the bedrooms not warranted
. Its hard with 2.

He doesn't like to think he's upset me and it usually works and makes him stop till next time

I suppose just stay calm and keep repeating that mummy is here if he needs a cuddle. But the key is to stay completely calm. Much easier said than done!

It's hard at this age. I like the active listening technique. You feel like a bit of a twat but it works! So basically you reflect back what they are saying and wait for them to respond.

So he says "Don't want bagel" and you say "Oh! You don't want the bagel." A statement, not a question, and don't take it away, just wait. Then he says "Want bagel" and you say "Now you want the bagel". If he goes back to the original you can say something like "You want the bagel and you don't want the bagel." Usually they will then tell you what they actually mean which is something like it is cut the wrong way or they actually meant a bun not a bagel, and then you can work from there - I might just meet the request if it's a battle I don't choose to have that day. Or if I would eat the "wrong" bagel for instance. But if it would end up being wasted then I would go with this kind of approach: www.andrealoewen.ca/you-cut-the-toast-the-wrong-way-heres-what-to-do-now/

If he's stuck on I want it/don't want it then you might then move to something like "It sounds like you don't know if you want the bagel or not." and then see where that goes - if it's general upset/emotional breakdown then just sympathise that everything is hard at the moment and it's hard to make decisions/be 3/be a big brother sometimes. (Even if the behaviour started before the baby, he's likely to be on a hair trigger because of the baby too).

Likewise when he's following you but you can't hug him right away you might say something like "I can see you want a hug DS1. I'm going to put the baby somewhere safe and then I can pick you up." Just kind of narrating. Then if he changes his mind "OK, you don't want a hug." It can then be for example that you realise what he really wants - maybe he didn't want a hug but he wanted you to put the baby down.

It's a good idea to tell the baby things as well like "OK baby, I'm just busy with big brother right now, you'll have to wait a minute." The baby doesn't understand of course - it's for the toddler's benefit, so it doesn't feel so one sided to them.

I share your mum guilt my 2.5 year old is the same and trying to juggle my 13 week old and her is far far easier said than done somedays. Tantrums I do my best to ignore depending on what the cause is and what's going on, active defiance usually results in counting to 10 and if all else fails a 30 second time out usually resets her enough for a cuddle and an explanation of why things are the way they are. Somedays I do feel like I've done nothing but tell her off and I have to remind myself she's only 2 and still very new to the world and it's social graces and etiquette.

I follow big little feelings on Instagram after a suggestion on here and have found it hugely useful

3 is really hard in my experience! My son has awful meltdowns sometimes, but almost always because he is either really hungry, hot, or really tired. (And it's usually the tired one)
Try saying.. 'i wonder if you're hungry?' and he might suddenly go oh yeah I am can I have a snack.
I always try and empathize/understand why he's upset, even if it makes no sense. So a lot of 'i can see you're very frustrated that you don't know if you want this juice or not. That must be hard etc'.
And I do take him out of the situation when he's tantrumming, as they have happened when he's just a bit overwhelmed at a relative's house and the cold air and quiet helps, but I try to not leave him alone. Even at home I take him away from whatever is causing the tantrum to upstairs and I stop him leaving his room, but I'm in there too, and I just keep telling him it's okay, but we're staying here until he's calmed down, im here for a cuddle whenever you're ready.
He will rage around me and then quite quickly want a cuddle and then he calms down quick.
I used to put him in his room and shut the door with me outside, but he just came out still angry and not having properly calmed down and then another tantrum wasn't far behind. I also think it just teaches them not to show their feelings and they shouldn't be angry/upset. I talk to him when he's calmed down about why he was upset/what happened, and then he usually remembers that and makes comments on it later on, so he's now pretty good at talking about feelings.

Thank you everyone, I think I just needed to vent earlier as sometimes I just want to pull my hair out with him but I feel so guilty saying that because I want to enjoy him.

@BertieBotts I will Defiantly give it a go, I’m sure I will get the opportunity tomorrow at some point lol. Thank you for that.

@ArtfulScreamer it’s hard isn’t it. The lack of sleep really doesn’t help either. When you do time out do you physically put him somewhere, or just ignore him? I’ve never actually done time out so unsure where to start if it’s needed.

@CelloYouveGotABass thanks, I will check that out now.

@Thenosleepclub I think it’s mostly to do with tiredness to be honest, he’s at the state where he’s trying to cut out his only nap but I don’t think he’s ready. I think he has FOMO 😂

I have a 6.5yo and a 2.25yo. Those of you with toddlers and babies are amazing. Really. I cannot imagine how you do it!

I do echo the active listening thing, it makes you feel like you’re doing something at least.

If you can feel the big PND monster lurking, try and get the treatment you need to nip it in the bud early.

It's hard! He's still in the super early days of adjusting to your new baby (and late pregnancy before that). As pp have said, try to express what you think he's tantrumming about so 'oh you don't want the bagel? You thought you wanted it but now you don't, or do you want it spread with something' etc.

Stay civil. It's easier said than done but if you start sounding annoyed, it escalates things. It's harder for a kid to kick off at a reasonable, friendly adult.

Have a routine as far as possible and ensure you have a bit of 121 time every day so he's not always feeling pushed to one side by the baby. Even if it's just five minutes.

Get him involved in baby care if poss eg carrying nappies or even showing baby how to get dressed etc.

If all else fails, can you put him in nursery? DD enjoyed time away from the baby when I had ds!

@Magik01 we live in a bungalow so she goes into her bedroom and I hold the door for 30 seconds, she really paddy's and carries on but when I open the door and say are you going to come have a cuddle with mummy and then do /stop XYZ the answer is always yes and she does then do/stop whatever XYZ is. I don't do timeout very often as she doesn't like it so usually the threat is enough and I don't threaten it lightly, we've usually failed in several negotiations by the time it comes around

@Magik01 yeah my 3yr old 'dropped' his nap at 2.5, but at 3yrs and 9 months still naps on non nursery days after a busy morning, but only when he falls asleep in the car. I do a lot of strategically timed car journeys!!
I have a 2yr age gap and in some ways I think it was a bit easier than if I had his sister when he was 3 as his 2 yr tantrums were over quick and easy to deal with. I definitely would go down the gentle parenting route here as much as possible, particularly as he's just got a new sibling so will also act out due to lack of attention at times. Plenty of 1-1 time reduces tantrums here too, and I always reassure him after one that I love him, even when he's angry or upset and it's ok to be.

Definitely seek help if you do think you are getting PND. I left it so late and am only now getting help after lockdown/pandemic induced PND with my second last year and she's 19months.

@CheekyAFAIK he does go nursery two days a week at the moment. Once he gets his free hours in Jan we are upping him to another day as well which will be easier for me. Again with the mum guilt though! I feel bad for not WANTING to spend all the time I can with him. I know it’s all normal feelings at the minute with a new baby but doesn’t make it easier. I agree with keeping calm as well, which I do try and do (I’d like to think I succeed quite a lot) but on days when sleep is minimal it all just goes out the window and I’m ashamed to say I loose my cool.

@ArtfulScreamer DS1 room is the loft room so can’t see myself hauling him up two flights of stairs with a baby in one hand any time soon for that approach. 😂

@Thenosleepclub I wasn’t actually diagnosed with PND after my first, partly because I never actually asked for help when I should have done as I knew at the time something wasn’t right but felt ashamed I guess? I know there’s nothing to be ashamed of, not sure why I didn’t seek help tbh. However this time I am under the mental health team- it was originally for anxiety surrounding birth as DS1 birth was traumatic and am still under their care for at least a few months after birth. Only problem is due to covid there isn’t any face to face, and two of my telephone appointments have been cancelled already. I’m also unsure whether it is PND this time or just the lack of sleep making me feel like I do. Think my heads just all over the place at the moment.

Thank you everyone though for all the advice, I will most certainly give it a go. Wish me luck!

Oh I've just recognised your name from the August thread :o Hello!

DH has been doing time out with toddler but I don't like it and am not sure it helps. Some people find it hits a reset button. I find personally if I get to the point of giving a punishment then I really struggle to wind down from that emotionally myself and I stay annoyed/detached from them, which I don't feel is overly good, whereas DH is really good at shifting gears and being happy/friendly/nice Daddy once stern Daddy has gone away.

I really like the Janet Lansbury podcast Unruffled if you want something to listen to. Just make sure whatever you take in isn't making you feel guilty for not being able to perfectly stick to it. It's a work in progress and any small improvement is a win, there's no expectation to be perfect straight away.

@Carleton

My son is nearly 3, his tantrums got worse after his sister was born earlier this year. I've found the only thing that works is making him go into his room for 1 to 2 minutes and holding the door. It may sound cruel but I'm consistent with it when it needs to be done and nothing else works and it makes him snap out of it. I find it upsetting as it upsets him but I use it as a last resort usually if hes constantly hitting because cant have own way etc. I also try to use self pity, I.e poor poor mummy (pretend cry) if the bedrooms not warranted . Its hard with 2.

Well this is delightful....

Reading for tips! My DC is 3 and a quarter and she has had the most epic tantrums for a good few months now. Some days we have none and other days we have loads, it's very unpredictable but being tired is definitely a major trigger point. However it's hard to avoid that because she often doesn't nap anymore and when she does she just power naps for 30-45 mins here and there. Her outbursts can easily go on for 45 mins or so and I'm autistic and the sheer volume from screaming for that length of time really really gets to me, I've burst into tears a few times over the last few weeks - am sure being heavily pregnant and in permanent pain with PGP doesn't help my tolerance either. Very anxious about how am going to manage when I have two of them screaming at once...