primary school appeals nightmares!

[MrsGrif1992]

My DS should be starting Yr1 this September however so far I have no way to get him to the school he has been offered.

Backstory, in April 2021 we moved 6/7 miles away and applied to move DS to one of two schools closer to our new house & were placed on the wait list. It is about a 15-20minute drive away through a busy city centre at rush hour to his original school & we muddled on for the last term with the help of my niece doing drop offs and DH changing his shift pattern at work to be able to pick up.
We both work 9-5 office jobs, but mine is 30+ miles away so no way any amount of shift altering would mean I was able to do either.
DH is a key worker, with set hours & his work were able to swap lunches and the tasks he did in the afternoon so he could take his lunch hour 3-4 for pick up, but can’t do this on a morning too.
My niece is also now heading off to uni so her taking DS is no longer an option.

We picked two schools the first being a preference because although slightly further from our new house (still within comfortable walking distance) our current childminder who has looked after DS since 9month & his younger sister currently do pick up/drop off there, all the children in that setting go to this school so DS would have friends, and my SIL also works there as support staff.
The second choice was the school less than 330m (as the crow flies which seems to be how schools measure) from ours.
He was rejected from both as he had a “viable school place” already. Something we were only told because we called the council to chase up at the start of the summer holidays, no letter was sent etc. We lodged an appeal immediately, but heard nothing and apparently this was “lost” (as in physically, not we lost the appeal)
I have resubmitted everything and have been on the phone daily to the council and have an appeal for the second choice school at the end of September.

I realise that appeals can only be won on the grounds of mistakes being made, what I’m trying to find out is what information do I need to get together to prove a mistake has been made. I don’t believe his place was properly applied for for September 21 start and/or our distance from the school has been properly calculated. We live in a very small village where everyone knows everyone and we have been told we’re 2nd on the waiting list because there is another child who lives closer, but how can I prove this is wrong because they are obviously not going to give me details of the other address.

I know people will tell me to look at other options and so far we have:

• Tried the three other schools in our “pyramid” all of which are full
• have looked at a childminder who does pick up/drops offs at his offered school and they are full.
• my work are being as helpful as they can but I am responsible for my office so while I can WFH occasionally, it is vital that I am in the office by 9am at least 3/5 days. They have also offered me a company car which is great as we’re currently a one car family, however it won’t be ready until the end of September/start of October so we still have 4+ weeks with no way to get him to school & even with a second car my husband is very likely going to be late to work regularly (traffic dependant) as current school open the gates at 8:45am, and he has to be at work 15 minutes later, going on a journey that takes 15 minutes on a good day!
• His current school don’t offer any breakfast club and last year suspended all after school clubs (they might make a come back after the October half term, Covid dependant I guess)
• grandparents, to put it bluntly half are dead and the other half live an hour away, so not an option.
• why did we move in the first place without knowing we had a school place? We moved from a well known council estate with an ongoing drug problem (that has made national news) to a quiet village with scarecrow festivals and classic car shows, who wouldn’t jump at the chance to move?!
• asked for transport from the council with one staff saying “can he get the 196 bus?” (HES 5!!) and another just saying “no” with no further explanation.
• we’ve even looked at seeing if there are any other parents that we could trust to take him for us, but 1) we don’t know any well enough other than to say a polite hello in the playground and 2) would YOU want essentially a stranger coming to your house at 7:30am and dropping their tired, ratty kid off while you’re dealing with your own? At least when I do this with my childminder she knows me and my children, is paid very well for it & is a trained professional!

We have a complaint lodged with the council about the whole process, how it wasn't explained, paper work wasn’t issued, and also regarding the head of admissions and her attitude. For example when I asked who I could escalate to she told me “don’t bother they’ll tell you the same thing” and when I asked for the details of where to make a complaint “I’m not finding that, you can do it”
And “you could live on the school field, I’m not giving you a place at this school” (in reference to our 2nd choice when I asked how much closer we’d have to live to be top of the wait list)

I’m just at my wits end and have spent every day for weeks crying trying to think of a solution.

Sorry for the rant! x

It might be worth posting this on the primary education board as there are lots of admissions experts on there. I hope it works out for you.

You are focussing on the wrong thing with school 2. You cannot find out specific details of another child and it won't help you anyway unless another child leaves. Did you make an In
Year application and have replies refusing places. Ask about Fair Access protocol and approach all schools closer than his present one which you or cm could get to asking about space in y1 and go on their waiting lists.

So in a nutshell you made an in year application for a school nearer to your new home but there are no places. You have a place on a waiting list - currently second on the list. What is it that you’re appealing against?

I mean what are the grounds for your appeal?

I’ve read your post through again, and can’t actually see any grounds for appeal. All the reasons you’ve given were your decision brought in by moving house I’m afraid. Expecting the LA (ie everyone who pays council tax in your borough) to pay for transport because you’ve moved house is a bit of a check really.
If the admissions dept did say that they couldn’t give him a place even if you lived on the school playing field then they’re correct - no room, no place.

What mistake do you think they have made? You moved house and there is no space in schools close to where you live now. They can’t magic a space up if the school is full. It sounds like a logistical headache but one of your own making - did you not consider this before you moved?

You need to understand that assuming infant class size, appeals can only be won if a mistake has been made THAT HAS CAUSED HIM TO MISS OUT ON A PLACE.

Even if they have miscalculated your home to school distance and he is the closest, unless there's a vacancy at the school you won't win an appeal. Unless you have reason to think there is a vacancy, or was a vacancy and he should have had it?

Definitely worth getting this moved to Primary Education board. There are some very knowledgeable posters.

But off the top of my head (and I stress with zero insight) You don't need to know where the other child lives or why they are first in the queue (might be listed under different protocol - in care or SN for example, either way the school shouldn't share that information) - you just need to double check their calculations of home to school.

As for the failure of the initial application - did you receive confirmation of your application? What went wrong?

Issues regarding how staff interacted with you wont impact your appeal and is a separate issue.

In terms of a solution if you cannot get him there you'll have to employ a childminder or nanny or someone to take him.

I was told by the council a few years ago that a journey of up to 45mins was considered acceptable for a Primary child. So it could well be on paper you have an acceptable school place so they don't need to help you find a nearer one.

I guess also included in their argument is that it isn't any sort of 'fair access protocol' coming in to play as you are only 20mins drive from his current school (through busy centre at rush hour - so slow moving? if so what actual distance?) so he has a school he can go to.

If the current school is more than (2 or) 3 miles away, should the LA have to provide transport under these circumstances?

@TeenMinusTests

I guess also included in their argument is that it isn't any sort of 'fair access protocol' coming in to play as you are only 20mins drive from his current school (through busy centre at rush hour - so slow moving? if so what actual distance?) so he has a school he can go to.

If the current school is more than (2 or) 3 miles away, should the LA have to provide transport under these circumstances?

From the post it seems like they used to live closer to his allocated school. Then they moved and are struggling to get him to his current school or find a place closer to their new home. If that is the case then the LA is under no obligation to a) organise/pay for transport as the OP chose to move or b) give him a place in a school which is closer if they have no vacancies.

From what the OP has posted, they moved to be in a better area which is understandable but the drawback is the lack of availability of school places which is not the LA’s problem as they did not force them to move further away from the current school.

I managed to get my DS in to our closest school in an infant class size appeal, we moved to the area after places had been allocated (going into reception), the offered school just wasn’t viable for us due to the transport issues so in our appeal I explained this and was ready to answer all the questions accordingly, and I researched the school we wanted and although the classes were all full, the building itself had room to add another classroom if ever needed and the head was happy to accept more pupils (they didn’t feel overstretched according to the head) and we won, he was number 32 into the class. Not necessarily much help to you as I don’t no how big your school is etc but just adding my story as so far everyone’s said you can’t win an appeal, it is possible!

With regards to checking if a mistake was made you can usually request or find online most of the information you need. I managed to find the councils map that they went by to determine distance from the school, how many appeals had been won in previous years, square footage of the school etc and used it all in my appeal. You don’t really need to prove that you are closer than someone else, just how close you are yourselves because obviously they can see the other persons distance already. I spoke to some horrible people on the phone myself but when I managed to get to an appeal meeting it was an independent board deciding rather than some grump on a phone and that helped too. Good luck!

You see @Snookie00 I'm not so convinced. If she had moved 200 miles they wouldn't expect her to stay in the same school, so my question is
a) how far away is she now from the school
b) is that considered reasonable travel
c) if the distance is outside the 'free travel' distance should the |LA now be paying given that she no longer wants the school and wants a nearer one.

As this is tucked away in parenting I'm going to tag a couple of admissions people who will know what to advise the OP: @PatriciaHolm @prh47bridge

If either school had a place available at the time you applied, the council was required to offer that place. How far away you live from the school is not relevant. Your child's current school is not relevant. If a place is available, it must be offered to anyone who applies.

If both schools were full in the relevant year, the council was entitled to take the view that his current school place is still viable and make no offer. However, your first sentence suggests that he has now been offered a school. If the offered school is more than 2 miles from home by the shortest safe walking route, the council must provide free transport for your son. They do NOT have to provide free transport for you to accompany him. So, assuming he can travel free on the bus, they don't need to do anything more.

An appeal cannot change your place on the waiting list. It can only award your son a place. If the appeal is infant class size, the rules are that you can only win if a mistake has been made which cost your son a place. A mistake which didn't alter the outcome is irrelevant. Arguments about distance are therefore irrelevant. If there was a place available at the school, it should have been offered regardless of how far away you live. If there was no place, they could not offer one. Similarly, whether they processed your application at the correct time is only relevant if he would have been offered a place had they done so.

It sounds like you have cause for complaint about the way this has been handled and some of the comments sound out of order but, unless you get a sympathetic appeal panel willing to bend the rules, that won't get you a place.

I'm sorry you find yourself in the situation. Unfortunately, I can't see anything in your post that definitively shows that a mistake has been made that cost your son a place.

I think you are going to have to pay someone to do the morning drop off at least till you get the second car

Your situation sounds incredibly stressful and I have sympathy because it’s clear you’re just trying to do your best for your family. But by moving for a nicer house and then expecting to win an appeal to make your school runs convenient, you are basically assuming that an already over stretched teacher with 30 children in her class should have to have 31 and just suck up the extra work that comes with each child.

It’s only fair that you get the place you need when your child is able to join in with a reasonable (but already big) class size.

One more thought...

Some councils try to make it difficult for parents to move their children to a different school unless they have moved a long way. If either of the schools had a place when you applied and the council didn't offer it because they thought the current school was still viable, that was a breach of the Admissions Code and you should win an appeal for that school. However, if both schools were full and the comment about the current school was to explain why they didn't offer an alternative, you are unlikely to win an appeal.

I agree with prh, as usual.

I think the main thing to ascertain here is, as prh says, whether there actually was a place at either school when you first applied and they decide not to give it to you because they decided your existing school was still fine. They are not allowed to make that decision - if there was a place available, you have to be given it, regardless of where you live. So if that happened, I would expect you to win an appeal. However, realistically, it's just as likely that the schools are full, and the LA have decided they don't have an obligation to proactively offer another place as you already have one in their area.

Otherwise, it would seem they have been disorganised and indeed rude, but that won't help in an appeal; assuming it is an infant class size appeal, and there was no place to give you, then them being slightly hapless and unhelpful is cause for complaint but won't win an appeal.

What did you do for before/after school care before you moved? I'm confused that his childminder you have had for years does drop offs at a school near your new house. I would have thought you could continue using your same childcare as you had in April, just leaving earlier to drop him at the childminder or breakfast club before he goes on to his old school. Not ideal in terms of increasing driving but not impossible.