Sleep training advice

[SugarOrange]

My 9m/o has never been a great sleeper, slept through the night no more than 3 times (and that was at 3/4 months). He has CMPA and is on Neocate.

He was waking once or twice for a bottle in the night and going straight back to sleep, having around 2.5/3 hours a day of naps so it was manageable. He would self settle for first nap brilliantly, struggle with afternoon nap and always kick off at bedtime.

The past 3/4 weeks have been so hard though he is now waking around 4 times a night, waking at 5.30am, refusing to nap for longer than 45/1 hour and waking screaming. Getting him down for bed is taking 2 hours.

I did the Ferber method at around 6 months for a good two months but it never helped him settle on his own at bedtime/sleep through. He gets so so upset and it’s impossible to settle him without picking him up or feeding him in the night.

I’m going to start trying to “train” him to self settle again in the hope he will go back to minimal feeding through the night. My question is what do you do when baby is just screaming and won’t give in at bedtime? Do you pick up and settle? Have to wait it out? We have another child in the house and neighbours that share a wall with his bedroom (semi-detached) so I just can’t let him make a huge racket for hours on end.

Any advice from experienced mamas appreciated

I'd stay with him - does he have a good bedtime routine? Comforters/blankie, special music or white noise?
Do all your bedtime stuff, settle him in the cot and rub his back or hold his hand or just sit next to the cot and shush him. Only pick him up if he's really upset but lay him back down as soon as he is calm. No milk after teeth brushing before bed.

@crazyguineapiglady yes same routine every night, dinner, quiet play maybe some in the night garden, bath, milk, same lullaby every night, white noise and bunny.
Would you wait for him to fall asleep and then leave? I had started doing that but only for a week or so. I read that leaving could mean he will wake unsettled by me no longer being there but did it work for you?

It sounds like he’s not tired enough at bedtime.
Are naps spaced out and does he have about 2 hours wake time between each?
Also, is he full going to bed?
A big bottle before bed, in a quiet calm room, read him a book then pop him down. Maybe dry a suitable teddy too to help him sleep.

How many day naps? Maybe time to drop one, perhaps? How long between the last nap ending is bed time? Maybe play around with timings as a starting point to see if that helps first?

My little one is 11m and fights bedtime for 2hrs ish when starting to drop a nap.

We're currently transitioning down to one 2-2.5hr nap late morning and bringing bedtime 30m earlier which helps.

Good luck.

What's the eating like? Is he having three good meals?

Dd1 was like this, but I did not sleep train till 14 months, when she broke me. Then it took maybe three nights and I wondered why I had not done it sooner.

I spent hours with her sitting at night and it just made it worse.

Ferber did work but when done exact and to the timings.

Dd2 I started about eight months. She is now nine and I put down wide awake and leave. She sometimes still had a little shout cry but no more than maybe 30 seconds.

So I'm wondering whether you start afresh with Ferber. So tomorrow is day one. Three minutes etc. The trick I found in night wakes was you have to stick to it. So it's hard when you think shit it's 2am but after a night or two it did work.

It's not for everyone but I concede it hugely improved my daughters overall health, sleep and temperament almost instantly.

I, just wondering whether it's worth a try as six months is the earliest for it and he may well be different now a Good bit older.

@CantStartaFireWithoutaSpark I think he’s overtired at bedtime at the moment 😩
At the moment it’s wake @ 5.30
Nap 8 - 9ish
Nap 1-2ish
Usually falls asleep in the car at some point in the afternoon for 20 mins or so
I start bedtime at 6 taking until 8 to go to sleep but he’s knackered

He has dinner then 9oz bottle 😩 I so wish I could improve his nap schedule at the moment but he just keeps waking after 45-1 hour. I try taking him on long walks but he’s nosey so would rather be looking around.

I don’t know if it’s down to his milk being so thin or just a sleep regression. It’s so exhausting

I had this! It's so tough, and a few nights can feel like years. I found that a short first nap - no more than 30mins tops, then second nap around 1pm for 2 hours. Then have lots of fun in the evening, your bedtime routine sounds perfect, so good work with that! Personally I found that I moved from falling asleep in my arms was stage 1, then we moved to falling asleep with my hand on them in the cot (it was literally be cuddling them while in their cot for the first few nights!) worked, and the self settling improved from there.

I would also say that the road isn't smooth, but that's ok. I've heard and agree that if they know they can rely on you at night to support them, they will feel more secure in the long run and sleep independently when they are ready. Best of luck OP, and the mere fact you're reaching for help shows how much you care

@Margo34 interesting I hadn’t heard of anyone dropping to one nap yet, I will try to hold him out a little longer for the morning nap tomorrow and see if it helps make it longer again

@bookh eating is ok, he has three meals but varies how much he actually eats. He still has a big nighttime feed but his milk is so thin. When doing Ferber did you cut all bottles the first night? I will try again

Oh and do you use white noise? I have a MyHummy bear and it's been a life/sleep saviour. Lots of different machines available! :)

@louise987 thanks so much that’s so lovely. I’m really trying and it’s so hard when all his little friends are great sleepers! Makes me feel like I’m doing something wrong. He has been falling asleep whilst being rocked the past couple of weeks so I will move to the hand in cot for a while, thankyou

@SugarOrange not the bedtime one no.

The overnights tricky. So dd1 was older but I was probably still faffing about offering unwanted milk until I did it. Dd2 so I always fed her when I went to bed because she stayed with me in kitchen area until I went to bed. Then when she moved to her room I stopped feeds. They are both sucky babies and a dummy does help.

I’ve got a nine month old ( my second). I don’t worry about training or setting up bad habits. She gets wrapped firmly in a giant cotton blanket with a dummy and then I rock and hum to her until she gives in. Then she gets plonked in the cot. If she wakes in the night I pick her up wrap her again if needs be and rock again. If teething I give her some calpol mixed in a little milk. She’s also
More settled if naps are 1hour in the morning and 1.5 hours at 2:30. No third nap

Having gone to hell with dd1 sleep you are not doing anything wrong. Had I had dd2 first I would have had the same shock if dd1 came second, for the first while anyway. She was an absolutely awful sleeper. When I say I tried everything I mean it. Ferber was my line and my last, last resort. I was hallucinating I was so tired. It's impossible. Then she cried and moaned all day tired. Every nap was only if on me.

Now she's nearly three and 12 hours night and a good 1.5 hour nap! All her friends have dropped all naps and she's like sleepy mummy, bed!