children and naughty friends - what would you do

[WUTYvbls]

My 3year old is an only child so I am usually very keen to set up playdates etc for him. However, a couple of 'new' and old friends' kids seem to have become increasingly naughty and frankly mean kids i.e. things like kicking other people's sandcastles, sometimes taunting other little kids, just not playing nicely with other children etc etc. Over the course of the last few playdates, DS has started to join in (after complaining in the past that they were not very nice kids). I admit that I was initially reluctant to break off their friendships as I am also friends with their mums and the expectation is for all of us to go out with the kids to the park or a museum. However, I also don't want DS to pick up on their bad habits. I've increasingly noticed that he now also reproduces these types of games with his other friends who are all lovely and wouldn't naturally ever be naughty themselves.

What does everyone else do? Do you just fade out any naughty kids around your little one? Do you give them a chance to change? Do you ever still see your mum friends with the naughty children?

Honestly you just need to step in a discipline your own when he does these types of behaviours. I’m always a bit at parents who seem to think their child’s poor behaviour is only because they have been influenced by others.
If you avoid children who can be naughty your kids is going to end up pretty lonely as there will always be “naughty kids”. You just have to teach yours to behave how you want them to

How old are these naughty kids?

Well at the moment some of the other boys are say 4 years old - a bit older but not by much.

We do try and discipline - but perhaps I should do it even more. I am not saying my kid cant be bad - he obviously can but in his own way i.e. naturally he would, for example, lash out and lets say have a meltdown. The taunting of other kids and deliberately being nasty is not him - but the way some of these other kids play that he then tries to emulate.

I just dont have much experience in these things as DS is an only child. But he does seem fascinated with other slightly older boys who break rules and act out, I mean he says as much. However, these are also kids of my friends so until now I have generally tolerated it in order to keep the friendships.

Hmm. 4yr olds can behave in undesirable ways but I’d hesitate to label them as naughty individuals just yet.

Kids copy other kids. Always will, to a greater or lesser extent. Kicking down sandcastles pretty standard in my book, I wouldn’t describe this as being naughty.

Your dc will frequently come into contact with other dc who have had different parenting or disciplinary experiences. It’s part of life and how young dc learn that people are different. And that in some cases we have to learn to live alongside it, or tolerate it without it affecting us too much. Call it building resilience if you like!

I agree with PP who said step in and discipline in the way you choose should you notice your dc being ‘naughty’.

And be prepared that cute 3yr olds have a habit of morphing into one of Those Naughty Children (No, I’m not bitter )

@ButcherBaker thank you for the advice. As I said, I am here trying to learn from others. So what would you suggest. Lets say - my friend's kid is trying to taunt other children - DS joins in. I tell him not to do it, he stops for a bit but the other kid continues. I can keep my kid by my side but after a while either he is just with them or he joins the other kid in say taunting these other kids. What then? Also, would you continue meeting up with them?

And feeling a bit quilty i guess because originally DS used to say he doesnt like them and doesnt want to play with them but I have persisted as their parents are also friends of mine.

I think I’d do what I’d do whether with friends or alone. Explain why you’re not happy with whatever behaviour it is. Reminders about what being kind/sharing etc mean. Distraction. Play with them for a bit. Try and then focus on giving attention and praise to any positive play or interactions.

Unfortunately IME 3 and 4yr olds still need a bit of guidance and direction - left to their own devices for too long and it can go a bit tits up.

Yes I’d still see them if I was friends with the parents and if contact was as much about my needs as dc

One of my children has ASD. He can definitely struggle to play ‘nicely’ as he gets really upset and frustrated when others don’t follow his idea of the rules (pretty much all the time!).
I hope that whilst I understand the reasons for this behaviour and we do work on strategies I am sufficiently ‘interventionalist” to not put off my friends with kids. And because frankly it’s exhausting intervening every couple of minutes, I also make a point of seeing friends with just me or me and my neurotypical child.

At 4yrs we didn’t really know they had SEN so perhaps you might have perceived him as just being a bit ‘naughty’.

Not sure if that helps your situation, but thought I’d give another perspective.

@Topofthepopicles thank you for your perspective - that's also really helpful. To be honest, I suspect that DS is also somewhere mildly on the ASD spectrum (I mean the rest of the family are) so am not oblivious to bad behaviour but perhaps this is also my concern. DS despite his outbursts can also be very naive and follow other kids more than others if you see what I mean. Not sure if this is ASD related - but he is naive and easily led while also being really stubborn and hard to reason with.

@Topofthepopicles and I also get your point about it being tiring. It is tiring enough having to police DS and his own behaviour without the additional stress of making sure the other kids dont tell him to go and tell a group of girls they are ugly, or step on a cat or take his pants down and pee in the middle of the park. I appreciate that he is 3 so lots of this behaviour is probably normal but he's actually not usually devious by nature

If the other children are making your life a lot harder on play dates, I would step back from them for a bit, or only get together when they have a parent around too. There may be many reasons for their behaviour, but if you have easier children to have play dates with, I'd focus on those for now.

I’m going to be totally honest and say yes over the years I have “faded out” kids who are badly behaved and try to influence ds in a negative way. I still see their parents- but without the kids. As you say it’s hard enough trying to instil the boundaries in your own child without others undermining that.

He’s older now and has learned to spot these kids himself and naturally distances himself from them.

Don’t feel guilty about limiting contact with certain kids.

I should have also added that with one of these kids, the mum also has a set of younger twins so honestly doesn't have much energy/bandwidth for policing her 4-year-old when we are at. Obviously, at the moment most playdates are outside so it's often the older ones running off somewhere to play while the parents are dealing with the little ones. We tend to go to little parks/enclosed areas so the 3 and 4 year olds are in sight but not next to us. I am often torn between talking to my friends while they are dealing with the younger siblings and having to patrol the 3/4 year olds

Are the other parents around and ignoring their child's behaviour? If so then that's really annoying and tbh would put me off the friend a bit.

If not, then I'd just say to both children something like "please don't do [x behaviour]. It's not nice. You wouldn't like it if someone did it to you" and then distract, but I know that would put some people off me for the crime of "disciplining their child".

Ah, x posted, well I guess if it's a good friend who I know is normally keen on decent behaviour then I'd still mildly tell off both children (not even really telling off at that age, just suggesting that they behave in a different way).

I have absolutely faded friendships. They were, however, friendships that had formed from our DC being at the same nursery and the DC involved are now 8. About two years ago was my cut off as it was very clear that the parenting styles were incompatible. I’m now polite and have explained to DS1 why. He admitted to being relieved!

I wouldn't drop the friend unless it was very extreme. Your child will be influenced by others so good chance to teach him to behave even when others don't.

Addressing both children with general behave instructions is useful too. Smashing sandcastles is fun, I would probably say "stop, that's John's sandcastle. Let's build one for you to smash"