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Parenting

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Original poster

Tantrums in 4 year olds?

46 replies

jobsagudden · 09/08/2021 08:12

Hi,

Just looking for a bit of reassurance over whether or not this is normal?

DD1 has tantrums where she screams and kicks, normally once or twice a day. They are more often than not first thing in the morning or last thing at night so pretty certain they are tiredness related.

They usually happen with DH and I can usually calm her down. They last about 5 - 15 minutes but she really goes for it. Screams the house down. Kicking DH or me.

There's nothing going on at home of any cause for concern, everything is stable and no big changes happening, other than starting school in September.

She has always had bad tantrums and we really struggled with her age 2/3 when she could go for hours screaming and crying.

The majority of the time she is a lovely, sweet little girl. She's hitting all her milestones, is really good verbally etc.

When I try and talk to her about why she is screaming, kicking etc. She can't give me an answer.

I know she's not having enough sleep, she goes to bed between 7/8 but wakes up most days at 5 and refuses to go back to sleep. You can tell she's exhausted.

I suppose I'm just wondering if tantrums at this age are normal or if there's any cause for concern and I need to get a referral? If you have a 4 year old DC do they still have regular tantrums?

TIA

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54321nought · 09/08/2021 08:19

why are you managing "to calm her down"? just leave her, you are feeding in to it.

And no, she is not "refusing to go back to sleep! She's finished sleeping

Yes its normal, many children do this at this age. One of mine had terrible twos, and one had terrible fives! The interesting thing is, now they are adult, the one who had tantrums at 5 remembers them and can describe and explain them. Its the usual thing you would expect - couldn't decide between two nice things to have for breakfast and got angry and upset she was going to be able to fit one in....felt too tired to walk to school and knew there was no alternative.....

They could not explain it at the time though

Its no big deal, but you are not helping the situation by putting time and effort into calming her down. Just ignore and carry on with your day.

Bonheurdupasse · 09/08/2021 08:24

Record her OP, and show her later.
That might encourage her to stop.

Original poster

jobsagudden · 09/08/2021 08:25

@54321nought thanks for this you made me laugh. you're probably right. I'm a massive worrier and DH gets annoyed with her and they end up shouting at each other so feel I need to step in to diffuse the situation.

I think the best course of action is maybe getting DH to ignore her as soon as it starts and go from there.

Thanks for the reassurance and advice.

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Pissinthepottyplease · 09/08/2021 08:26

Yes tantrums are normal at this age but I would say two a day and being violent towards parents isn’t. When she is tantruming you need to leave her. This isn’t a punishment, it’s giving her the space to calm down and not putting her in a situation which allows her to be violent.

If her natural wake up time is 5 then she needs a much earlier bedtime.

Original poster

jobsagudden · 09/08/2021 08:26

@Bonheurdupasse do you think? DH keeps threatening this and I've been dead against it. Have you tried it?

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liveforsummer · 09/08/2021 08:32

Don't give her the opportunity to be violent, don't be in kicking distance. Calmly tell her you'll be there with a hug when she's calm and then leave her to it. You aren't helping anyone trying to negotiate out of a tantrum and dh will get nowhere with the shouting. That's just escalating things. It's still pretty normal, as you say it's clearly tiredness due to the timings and her sleep pattern and the kicking is something you have control over being the adult in the situation

PotteringAlong · 09/08/2021 08:34

My 4 year old wakes up naturally at about 5.30 and is asleep by 6.30pm. If he goes to bed later he wakes up earlier…

I think you need to push bedtime forward an hour or so and see if that helps.

TheLovelinessOfDemons · 09/08/2021 08:36

Both my youngest did this when they were overtired in the evenings. I made them get into pjs at the start of winding down time when they were calm. DD2 grew out of it, except once when she was 6 and DH decided we had to do the whole of London Zoo in a day, then I had to hold her down on the bus all the way home. DS2 still does it aged nearly 10, but he has ADHD.

Original poster

jobsagudden · 09/08/2021 08:36

@Pissinthepottyplease we've tried earlier bedtime and she just pisses around for an hour and causes havoc. I'm going to order a gro clock today to see if that helps at all.

I think I'm probably pandering to her too much, I really hate screaming and shouting, it makes me really anxious, so I probably interact too much with her. I might need to try going back to basics.

Thanks for the advice.

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Original poster

jobsagudden · 09/08/2021 08:37

@liveforsummer yeah I think you're right. I just need to stick to waiting it out rather than fusing over her. Thank you.

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Original poster

jobsagudden · 09/08/2021 08:39

@TheLovelinessOfDemons I am worried it could be ADHD as I've currently awaiting diagnosis and can remember really struggling with my emotions as a child.

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Original poster

jobsagudden · 09/08/2021 08:41

@PotteringAlong we have tried but she just refuses to go to sleep and will be messing around and go to bed even later. She could easily have a nap in the day but then come bedtime if she has one she'll be up till 9 not able to sleep.

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liveforsummer · 09/08/2021 08:41

[quote jobsagudden]@liveforsummer yeah I think you're right. I just need to stick to waiting it out rather than fusing over her. Thank you. [/quote]
My Dd was still 'challenging' at 4 so I feel your pain. She's 8 now and a million times better even if she does have her moments. Any intervention before she was ready would only escalate it even if it was a hug or an attempt to negotiate, it's learning the timing when they are ready for a big cuddle and then move on and leave it in the past. As a single parent it was a bit easier to have a consistent approach though. Can be a bit problematic when there is a bit of difference of opinion on dealing with it.

gogohm · 09/08/2021 08:44

Yes it's normal, as long as you have met her needs you need to give her space to learn to calm herself down, she's feeding off the attention. Give her plenty of attention when she's being good, none when she's being bad, set firm boundaries otherwise you'll have a 6 year old who still can't settle themselves.

As for the tiredness, as long as it's not the light waking her early (if so blackouts are your friend) there's nothing more you can do, you can't make a 4 year old sleep but you can set boundaries such as no tv or other rewards before 7am

Original poster

jobsagudden · 09/08/2021 08:45

@liveforsummer thank you. I think you are so right. We both need to be consistent with how we are handling it. Because at the moment she's probably getting mixed signals from us both. Probably need to take a step back and start again.

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gogohm · 09/08/2021 08:46

Oh and teach her to tell the time and put a schedule on her wall, this worked with my autistic dd really well, she didn't complain about bedtime or getting up time.

Original poster

jobsagudden · 09/08/2021 08:47

Can I ask too? Do you have any consequences for tantrums particularly if there is kicking / hitting.

We've started banning Screen time for the day if there is any violence but now wondering if this is the right approach?

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Original poster

jobsagudden · 09/08/2021 08:48

@gogohm great idea. Thank you.

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spottygymbag · 09/08/2021 08:55

We too have a four yo early waker. We've discovered we need to get breakfast into her ASAP or it all becomes impossible.
We also tried a gro clock but within a couple of weeks she had learnt to reprogram it and either changes the time so it's ok to get up or completely ignores it.
We did a reward chart which has helped, she now gets up for the toilet by herself in the morning and then comes to us for a cuddle. But we are still awake before 6am most days (6.30 wind down, 6.45 into bed, 7pm usually asleep).

ObviousNameChage · 09/08/2021 09:03

Two tantrums a day, especially around tired "time" is not unusual. Ofc , that doesn't mean she's definitely NT. only a professional can help with that if you're worried.

What causes the tantrums? What are they about?

How does the kicking and hitting happen? Does she cone to you to do it or it happens when you go to her to try and quiet/calm her down?

liveforsummer · 09/08/2021 09:04

I'm not sure consequences are very useful in this situation as mid tantrum she isn't in control of her actions. Perhaps look at screen time and treats as something to be earned rather than taken away. What's setting her off? Try to pre empt the tantrum with the offer of once you've done this we can go to park/you can have half an hour on your tablet (use a timer) and as before give her the space she needs if she does kick off so the option isn't there to hit or kick. What's she like at nursery? I'd not say you need to think about diagnosis or referrals just now - you've identified the tiredness. Keep your eye on it and mention it to school when she starts. I work in primary 1 and plenty parents still have this with their 4 year olds

HotPenguin · 09/08/2021 09:09

I don't think it's that unusual, but I disagree with advice upthread to leave her alone. Is she out of control? If she's lashing out it sounds like it. She can't control her emotions so she needs your help to regulate herself and get back under control. I am not suggesting you pander to her, but telling her in a calm voice ok you are feeling angry right now and describing what you see may help her - eg "you really want chocolate for breakfast but daddy cant let you" or whatever it is.

HeyGirlHeyBoy · 09/08/2021 09:13

Please don't record her

Yes normal really, don't feed it, acknowledge feelings and leave her at it.

Wjevtvha · 09/08/2021 09:13

My DD is 4 and we’re getting this; she gets up really early so I think it’s also tiredness related. We ban screen time which when we went through a stage of hitting a while ago it really helped. If she starts having a tantrum I stand back so there can’t be any accidental hitting and I’m more inclined to try and help her calm down and manage those emotions as the way I see it is that she’s got all these feelings that she doesn’t know what to do with so the tantrums come.
The recording her is not something I’d do personally, embarrassing them into inhibiting their emotions is not for me

Original poster

jobsagudden · 09/08/2021 10:02

@liveforsummer good idea, we've tried reward chats before and they've worked well. She is absolutely fine at nursery and she's great with my parents too when they have her, so I think it's more letting off steam at home. Need to try and get my husband on board. Thanks for all your great advice.

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