Meltdowns at bedtime

[liquidice]

Longtime Poster but name changed.

We are having massive bedtime meltdowns.

Either starts off being silly and when asked to stop etc leads to meltdown or straight meltdown.

He is looking for a reaction at times but other times completely overwhelmed and can't calm himself.

My question is what to do when he is being very violent? If we hold him he gets more mad and so we let him go after a minute or so. He then proceeds to carry on hitting or tries to trash the place.

So not to drip feed My son is 4 and on multiple medications for multiple food allergies / severe digestive issues. We do not know what he is currently reacting to and have increased one of the meds today following specialist input. His condition has been categorised as an immunodeficiency disorder where his body basically attacks everything he eats. So constant low level
Reactions and then flare ups on top.

Please help! We are at the end of our tether and I dread bedtime. He is so overtired by the time he settles.

We've already tried taking him up at 7 /7:30/7:45 etc etc but he is consistently sleeping at 9.15 or later. we've followed advice on sleep hygiene etc too.

So to summarise what would you advise during that violent episode? Hold him until he eventually calms even if it's a long time
Or close him in a safe ish room until he calms? My gut says holding/ restraining him Is better

Sorry for further drip feed but he says he is scared if we remove him / leave the room and it feels genuine

Is he sleeping during the day?

How is he the rest of the time?

What's the situation at home?

How long has he been doing this?

Does he have any additional needs? Speech OK? Etc?

No naps
Fine during day, odd outburst but nothing to this extent
Situation at home? We are a loving family of 4? No issues
It's been on and off for the last 3 months which we initially thought was triggered by a medication dosage change so we eventually tapered it back down - it took time to readjust to old dose

But last few nights it's come to a head

Don't know if it's a coincidence but with increased dosage of a different med to the one mentioned above, he has settled fine today!

Yes speech is unclear and he does get frustrated with us for that but I do mostly understand him

OK, well that's good as he can obviously mostly regulate things when he's not tired by the sounds of it.

Do his digestive issues flare at night/laying down or anything that might make him not want to got to bed?

I sympathise my LB whost almost 4 has allergies and behaviour definately takes a knock when he's reacting, also though when's he's having a mental 'leap' aswell which may tie in with the later sleep?

Weve been through the hitting and wrecking things phase (infact it's starting to rear its head slightly again!). Did a few things really that helped. Read books hands are not for hitting, colour monster and discussed how t on react when angry/what's acceptable and not during day times or when not kicking off.
During hitting times Co sistently saying no, that hurts mummy/daddy, asking 'how would you feel if I/someone hit you?' again helping tk name and identify feeli gs and this seemed to work well. If this didn't work then naughty step, if that didn't work or hitting continues then he gets left alone/walk away but it's framed as giving him space to be on his own and say' you let me know when your ready to be with mummy or daddy'. We never restrain, persona I think this adds fuel to the fire. Imagine if you were that radgy you just needed to lash out and then someone gripped their arms around you - it would probably piss you off even more! Plus it's not teaching him any mechanisms to calm from that state.

Also issues aside the behaviour not acceptable, I have been guilty of putting things down to health issues but actually at the end of the day hitting isn't really the ideal way to express emotion!!

Thank you for that!

Yes he has severe and I mean severe silent reflux, it really picks up towards the end of the day and when lying down. It's not his fault but it's just about getting through it whilst maintaining some boundaries. Agree hitting is far far from ideal.

We will keep going - he won't sit on the time our step and walking away doesn't work hence I was asking about either closing the door and leaving him in his room or holding him. I personally thought holding could be seen as comforting / cuddling but I must be looking at it wrong!

Have you talked to him when he is calm, to ask him what he wants from you at those times? I doubt that he likes it when it happens, it does sound like he is completely overwhelmed.

I would stay with him. Talk calmly to him to reassure him that you are there and he is safe.
He might like a calming space, like a pop-up tent or even hiding under a blanket. Anything that blocks out some of the sensory input he is experiencing. Being held might help him calm but it is better if that can be with his agreement in advance so he doesn't feel like it is a punishment.

Bless him, it's awful. My LB is mainly fine now if we manage diet etc but if unwell with a virus etc then the horrendous reflux (hear it come up the throat type) rears it's ugly head and he's a mess sometimes and gets sick of it all.

Sorry read my post back - didn't mean to infer you were doing the wrong thing, just it doesn't work for us and my LB gets more worked up if he feels restrained. But he's a sensitive soul emotionally and so it does tend to click with him if you explain the emotional impact its having - this might not work for you/him but maybe there's an in road through a way he can relate to?

Tummy issues are so blooming miserable for them there's no wonder they loose their shit sometimes!

@Voice0fReason

Have you talked to him when he is calm, to ask him what he wants from you at those times? I doubt that he likes it when it happens, it does sound like he is completely overwhelmed.

I would stay with him. Talk calmly to him to reassure him that you are there and he is safe.
He might like a calming space, like a pop-up tent or even hiding under a blanket. Anything that blocks out some of the sensory input he is experiencing. Being held might help him calm but it is better if that can be with his agreement in advance so he doesn't feel like it is a punishment.

Good point thanks!

@SlB09

Bless him, it's awful. My LB is mainly fine now if we manage diet etc but if unwell with a virus etc then the horrendous reflux (hear it come up the throat type) rears it's ugly head and he's a mess sometimes and gets sick of it all.

Sorry read my post back - didn't mean to infer you were doing the wrong thing, just it doesn't work for us and my LB gets more worked up if he feels restrained. But he's a sensitive soul emotionally and so it does tend to click with him if you explain the emotional impact its having - this might not work for you/him but maybe there's an in road through a way he can relate to?

Tummy issues are so blooming miserable for them there's no wonder they loose their shit sometimes!

Wow sounds very similar to us. His is a daily battle tbh and he regressed massively after the MMR booster. His diet is very limited but he still suffers constantly. It's ashame for them but what can we do

Bring tea and bath/bedtime forward by half an hour.
Wake him up at 7am every morning.

Sounds crazy but my 4 year old (neurotypical, no health issues) did this for months, screaming /crying/ hitting,/kicking at any mention of bedtime routine. It was exhausting for everyone involved. It's only recently stopped because we got a kitchen timer. I put it on an hour before bedtime. She knows she has to drink milk, eat snack, clean teeth, get PJs on and wee before the timer goes off. If she manages it, we read stories until the timer goes off. Something about handing all the control back to her has worked. I just turn on timer, say nothing about what she needs to do and she potters around talking to Teddy's for a while etc but gets it done. She goes to bed at 9pm (has never ever settled earlier than that) now without struggle.

So it sounds like he needs to learn to regulate emotions. Have a google theres lots about zones of regulation and what he could do instead of hitting to help him. Print or draw some pictures and name those emotuons- angry, sad, happy, tired. Get him to identify his emotions throughout the day. When he starts getting 'silly' get him to name his emotion before it escalates. Then ask him to decide on an action to help if he feels angry etc draw, print or use the actual thing(eg ball,cuddly/ toy/book) and have it available. If he starts to hit be very firm but not physical and say no hitting,reinforce his emotion and the action he can take - often something physical is needed- space hopper, trampoline, jumping, , firm massage, dancing if angry. Sad might be a cuddly or blanket etc let him choose but you suggest with pictures.
Another thing is to have a now and next or visual list- so bedtime routine- toliet, teeth, pjs ,story etc so he can see what's expected and what's accomplished.

The hitting I wouldnt restrain, does he hit you? If so learn a few blocks and move away. What's his punishment at moment for hitting? What's his reward for going to bed sensibly? At 4 he can understand right and wrong and just make sure he gets consequences for both so you're reinforcing right and wrong. No punishment for a wrong starts to look like a right choice to a child..

Sorry should add I wouldnt hold him when hitting as this either enraged or feels like hugs for that behaviour. I also wouldnt leave on own, just tell him firmly and stand back obviously protect yourself if need be but if he pulls all books onto floor etc dont worry. Once calm he can tidy it all up. If it's broken he loses it. Keep straight face, no shouting, no pleading to stop or be careful, let it play out if it gets to that point.
Good luck! Be firm and it will change. I speak from experience!

What about a bigger gap between last meal and bedtime if he has reflux? And maybe a wedge pillow or v-shaped pillow so he can sleep more upright? I'm a big fan of an audiobook to listen to and calm down for sleep. If he's struggling to regulate emotionally then I would hold him or at least stay in the room with him.

We went through a phase of this recently and I put it down to be over tired. He’d be nearly falling asleep at about 4, have dinner and then get really hyper. At bedtime he would be sorting, lashing out and shouting for mummy or daddy but then not actually want us when we went in. So now bedtime is 30mins earlier and so far so good. Good luck! 4 is tough age!!

@MistyFrequencies

Sounds crazy but my 4 year old (neurotypical, no health issues) did this for months, screaming /crying/ hitting,/kicking at any mention of bedtime routine. It was exhausting for everyone involved. It's only recently stopped because we got a kitchen timer. I put it on an hour before bedtime. She knows she has to drink milk, eat snack, clean teeth, get PJs on and wee before the timer goes off. If she manages it, we read stories until the timer goes off. Something about handing all the control back to her has worked. I just turn on timer, say nothing about what she needs to do and she potters around talking to Teddy's for a while etc but gets it done. She goes to bed at 9pm (has never ever settled earlier than that) now without struggle.

Excellent will try this as well

Strange thing is that he does the routine fine and gets into bed fine but it's when it's time to actually close eyes , it goes downhill

@MilkCereal

So it sounds like he needs to learn to regulate emotions. Have a google theres lots about zones of regulation and what he could do instead of hitting to help him. Print or draw some pictures and name those emotuons- angry, sad, happy, tired. Get him to identify his emotions throughout the day. When he starts getting 'silly' get him to name his emotion before it escalates. Then ask him to decide on an action to help if he feels angry etc draw, print or use the actual thing(eg ball,cuddly/ toy/book) and have it available. If he starts to hit be very firm but not physical and say no hitting,reinforce his emotion and the action he can take - often something physical is needed- space hopper, trampoline, jumping, , firm massage, dancing if angry. Sad might be a cuddly or blanket etc let him choose but you suggest with pictures. Another thing is to have a now and next or visual list- so bedtime routine- toliet, teeth, pjs ,story etc so he can see what's expected and what's accomplished. The hitting I wouldnt restrain, does he hit you? If so learn a few blocks and move away. What's his punishment at moment for hitting? What's his reward for going to bed sensibly? At 4 he can understand right and wrong and just make sure he gets consequences for both so you're reinforcing right and wrong. No punishment for a wrong starts to look like a right choice to a child..

Thank you. We have done a fair bit of this and will keep going. The colour Monster book is helpful as well..

He does hit us as well yes. He gets a sticker for a good bedtime and reduced/ no screen time for when there's hitting. IM not just sticking up for him but I do think he is uncomfortable with pain and doesn't always manage to recognise it and then the silliness/ aggression comes into play

@MilkCereal

Sorry should add I wouldnt hold him when hitting as this either enraged or feels like hugs for that behaviour. I also wouldnt leave on own, just tell him firmly and stand back obviously protect yourself if need be but if he pulls all books onto floor etc dont worry. Once calm he can tidy it all up. If it's broken he loses it. Keep straight face, no shouting, no pleading to stop or be careful, let it play out if it gets to that point. Good luck! Be firm and it will change. I speak from experience!

Thank you! Will be taking notes from This thread to refer back to

@TooMinty

What about a bigger gap between last meal and bedtime if he has reflux? And maybe a wedge pillow or v-shaped pillow so he can sleep more upright? I'm a big fan of an audiobook to listen to and calm down for sleep. If he's struggling to regulate emotionally then I would hold him or at least stay in the room with him.

He's had a wedge since birth. He can't really eat earlier than 5pm for various reasons but thank you

@Provencerose

We went through a phase of this recently and I put it down to be over tired. He’d be nearly falling asleep at about 4, have dinner and then get really hyper. At bedtime he would be sorting, lashing out and shouting for mummy or daddy but then not actually want us when we went in. So now bedtime is 30mins earlier and so far so good. Good luck! 4 is tough age!!

Thanks for sharing. I always thought 4 would be a good Age! The turning point 😆

What medication? He’s not on Montelukast, is he?