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Rear facing?

67 replies

mamaof2girls · 29/07/2021 15:10

Age did you keep your little ones rear facing? Daughter 3 in November and still rear faces with no issue so don't plan on moving her forward yet was just wondering the average age people move them?

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BertieBotts · 31/07/2021 10:02

No, because not all rear facing seats are reclined. In fact, it's safer to be upright when rear facing as long as the child is old enough to tolerate it (it wouldn't be safe for little babies for example). It's mainly to do with keeping the head, neck and spine aligned. In a forward facing seat, the shoulders are held back by the five point harness, but nothing is restraining the head so when you have a sudden stop from travelling forwards (no matter where the impact is directed from) the head will continue to move forwards until it's stopped by the extension of the neck. That's risky in terms of the spinal cord stretching or potentially snapping entirely. It won't always happen, but it can. Adults tend to get whiplash; children, who have bigger/heavier heads in proportion to their spine and much less tolerance for spinal cord stretching (because they are physically smaller) are much more vulnerable to serious spinal cord injury.

This is why racing drivers who use five point harnesses wear a HANS device (helmet with strap attaching to the seat) to help restrict movement of the head and reduce the incidence of spinal injury and whiplash in case they crash at speed.

The other main danger to children in car accidents is head injuries. If they fly forwards out of the seat, which will always happen to some extent in FF, even if you have a very good restraint used properly, but is much more of a problem when parents install the car seat with the seatbelt too loose or buckle the child in incorrectly or have the seat harness too loose or the child takes their arms out of the straps, (and all of these are extremely common misuses making up approximately 65% of car seat use) there is a danger that they will hit their head on some part of the car, whether that is an airbag, seat in front, side door, dashboard, etc. In rear facing seats the shell of the seat "catches" the head and contains it within the shell, meaning that the child is far less likely to hit their head on something within the car. Some more upmarket models also have shock absorbing materials in the head area of the seat to help reduce any impact on the shell of the seat itself. Modern forward facing seats have these too BTW, but it will only help for side impacts/on the rebound phase of a car crash, which is the secondary impact and the effects are lesser. However, this is also why you must never use a rear facing seat in front of an airbag - those inflate with too much force and can injure a rear facing child. But even if the straps are too loose, set up wrong etc the shell of a rear facing seat will help prevent a child's head from impacting on other parts of the car, which is significant.

Babynames2 · 31/07/2021 10:04

Yeah I agree - I've seen a few of these Rear facing threads lately - I just can't see how you'd fit them in a bog standard say Ford Focus - they are much bigger as the upright bit leans well over the footwell so if you don't have an expensive large car I can't see how you'd manage to have a tall driver who needs the seats all the way back

DH is 6ft4, DDs cybex sirona fitted rear facing behind him driving a in a standard Ford Focus. Most standard dissed cara are fine, smaller cars I can see how you would struggle.

SharpLily · 31/07/2021 11:44

"I don't think this is quite true. Sure, all of the really budget/generic seats are forward facing because that is what is popular, but I don't think it's a case that all ERF manufacturers care loads about safety whereas FF manufacturers don't give a shit."

Er, yes. This is why I said "usually" and "many", not 'all'...

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SharpLily · 31/07/2021 11:47

@BertieBotts

No, because not all rear facing seats are reclined. In fact, it's safer to be upright when rear facing as long as the child is old enough to tolerate it (it wouldn't be safe for little babies for example). It's mainly to do with keeping the head, neck and spine aligned. In a forward facing seat, the shoulders are held back by the five point harness, but nothing is restraining the head so when you have a sudden stop from travelling forwards (no matter where the impact is directed from) the head will continue to move forwards until it's stopped by the extension of the neck. That's risky in terms of the spinal cord stretching or potentially snapping entirely. It won't always happen, but it can. Adults tend to get whiplash; children, who have bigger/heavier heads in proportion to their spine and much less tolerance for spinal cord stretching (because they are physically smaller) are much more vulnerable to serious spinal cord injury.

This is why racing drivers who use five point harnesses wear a HANS device (helmet with strap attaching to the seat) to help restrict movement of the head and reduce the incidence of spinal injury and whiplash in case they crash at speed.

The other main danger to children in car accidents is head injuries. If they fly forwards out of the seat, which will always happen to some extent in FF, even if you have a very good restraint used properly, but is much more of a problem when parents install the car seat with the seatbelt too loose or buckle the child in incorrectly or have the seat harness too loose or the child takes their arms out of the straps, (and all of these are extremely common misuses making up approximately 65% of car seat use) there is a danger that they will hit their head on some part of the car, whether that is an airbag, seat in front, side door, dashboard, etc. In rear facing seats the shell of the seat "catches" the head and contains it within the shell, meaning that the child is far less likely to hit their head on something within the car. Some more upmarket models also have shock absorbing materials in the head area of the seat to help reduce any impact on the shell of the seat itself. Modern forward facing seats have these too BTW, but it will only help for side impacts/on the rebound phase of a car crash, which is the secondary impact and the effects are lesser. However, this is also why you must never use a rear facing seat in front of an airbag - those inflate with too much force and can injure a rear facing child. But even if the straps are too loose, set up wrong etc the shell of a rear facing seat will help prevent a child's head from impacting on other parts of the car, which is significant.

@FTEngineerM, @BertieBotts explains far better than I the point I was trying to make about why it makes no difference which end the impact happens - the child's body travels in the same direction either way.
ISeeTheLight · 31/07/2021 13:46

Re car size - we had a Ford cmax which isn't exactly huge. Whilst some of the ERF seats didn't fit (eg Besafe) we went with a cybex sirona which was fine and you could still easily fit in the seat in front. We're both tall.

Paddingtonsmarmlade · 31/07/2021 13:54

Ds is 4.9 and rear facing in minikid. Dd is 2.8 and rear facing in a cybex. Ds will remain rear facing until dd grows out of the cybex so over 5 and hopefully over 5.5

Saynotopineappleonpizza2021 · 31/07/2021 14:08

This is the graphic which made me chose to keep DC rear facing to 25kgs

Rear facing?
Bobholll · 31/07/2021 17:49

DD1 18 months because she screamed blue murder facing backwards. Result of Nana having a forward facing seat I think, she often has day trips with her. She’s 4 now.

DD2 12 months because she is horrendously car sick facing backwards. Every single journey within 10 minutes. Isn’t sick at all facing forwards 🤷🏼‍♀️ I do feel kinda guilty but I have a choice of a vomiting, choking toddler every journey that distracts me to the point of danger OR she faces forwards. The GP said they can’t give any travel meds til she is 2 so maybe I’ll turn her back round then ..

Ikeeponkeepingon · 31/07/2021 17:51

I rear faced mine till 5, only turned because he outgrew his axkid minikid by height (he is giant!).

Sunshinegirl82 · 31/07/2021 18:05

DS1 I turned FF at 4. He could have stayed RF longer but DS2 needed his seat as he had outgrown the infant carrier and at 4 it didn't seem worthwhile getting a 25kg seat. He's now in HBB (5 now).

DS2 (who is 2.3) is still rear facing in a Cybex Sirona and Joie 360 with us and a Joie stages with the childminder. I specifically asked the CM to keep him rear facing as long as possible and she didn't bat an eyelid. I'm hoping we'll get DS2 to 4 as well before needing to turn him although he's higher up the percentiles so we'll see!

Sunshinegirl82 · 31/07/2021 18:15

Personally I'd like to see rear facing being compulsory until at least 2 as for children younger than 2 rf really does make a huge difference to the safety of the child.

bluechameleon · 31/07/2021 18:27

My oldest was 4.5 but is very tall, youngest is 3.5 and still has loads of room left so I suspect will be at least 5.

MuchTooTired · 31/07/2021 18:34

My two have been forward facing since they reached the minimum legal age/weight for the seat (maxi cosi).

Not everyone’s choice for their kids, but it works best for me and mine. We barely drive anywhere, and have a large suv type car so I’m comfortable with our decision.

Keiki · 31/07/2021 18:58

Turned DC1 when outgrew baby carrier as didn't know any different. DC2 still RF at 2.5 but has just started asking to face the same way as DC1. Hoping to get to 4.

Narwhalsh · 31/07/2021 20:54

DC1 was

FTEngineerM · 31/07/2021 21:10

@BertieBotts ❤️ thank you
there is a danger that they will hit their head on some part of the car, whether that is an airbag, seat in front, side door, dashboard, etc. In rear facing seats the shell of the seat "catches" the head and contains it within the shell, meaning that the child is far less likely to hit their head on something within the car

This is such a good thought but teamed with the side impact outcomes being somehow better RF I think I can safely say I understand it now.

boydy99 · 31/07/2021 21:36

My 18m old is still RF in an axkid minikid, will keep him in that until he outgrows it. We bought our childminder a minikid too that she keeps in her car. we also bought an axkid move for my parents car because we fly to visit them. its the same size as the minikid. we've had no trouble fitting either of these seats to my hyundai i20 (corsa sized), CMs old land rover discovery where she has 3 across the back (only ours RF), my parents Seat Leon, a Rover 75 and the Audi A6 that has now replaced the corsa. the space required is irrelevant because I think the minikid/move have a depth of around 55cm, so if LO was FF, we'd still have to have the same amount of space in the back as needed for the minikid. The axkid seats are one of the most compact of RF seats and far more compact than any isofix seat, RF or FF.

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