Teaching your child to read in a language other than your own mother-tongue

[Anna8888]

OK. This might be a bit long.

My daughter, just three, is at a French-English bilingual école maternelle (pre-school) in petite section (first of three years). She is bilingual because I speak to her in English and her father speaks to her in French, though her English is currently more fluent/dominant than her French (she holds conversations with herself in English).

In the normal course of events, according to the French NC and her school's policy, she should learn to read in French in her first year of primary school, ie in three years' time, and in English in her second year of primary school.

She is not currently streamed at school. However, in grande section (third year) of école maternelle the children will be streamed for English and I fully anticipate my daughter being in the "bilingual" English class with other children who speak English at home with one or more parents.

I learnt yesterday that the school covertly also streams children for French in grande section. Children who are already able to read French (because their parents have taught them or they have taught themselves) are put in a separate class to the children who do not yet know how to read. There are four classes of 30 children in grande section, so we are talking about 1/4 of the children in the year group.

I really would prefer my daughter to learn to read a bit sooner than in three years' time and love the idea that she should be in the readers class in grande section. This would mean that I would need to teach her to read in French.

I am not at all sure, however, that this is a good idea/viable. My French is very fluent, but can I/ought I teach my daughter to read in French when the language we speak together is English?

I would welcome any input. Plus, does anyone know any good materials for teaching reading in French so that I can have a look at them myself while mulling this over?

interesting question. I have to admit, I had no intention of trying to teach my children to read before they learn at school aged 6 - unless of course, they show a particular interest in learning to read. If that is the case, I would try to teach them to read in english.

and I only ever read to them in english - never in dutch.

Belgo - I didn't have any intention of doing so either, until yesterday, because my understanding was that the school didn't take any account of children's reading ability before the first year of primary school.

The complex issue here in France is that officially schools are not allowed to stream if they are sous contrat and teachers' salaries paid by the Ministry of Education (which is the case at my daughter's school).

Her school can do what they like in English because the English part is not sous contrat but paid for by parents.

I have learnt in the past of lots of ways French schools get around the non-streaming issue - they just never advertise the fact. The existence of a reading class in grande section is another example of this.

Basically my daughter is already quite advanced in the type of stories that we read to her, and that she enjoys and understands (years ahead of the type of stories that are read to her by the class teacher at school) and I fear she will get very bored if she doesn't learn to read for another three years.

I personally would try and teach her to learn to read in english in that case. And maybe get your dh to try and teach her to read in french? if she's bright, the chances are she will cope in both languages. Maybe look up on the internet learning to read techniques.

Belgo - everything I read/hear says that you should teach your child to read in one language first.

The point about French being that it will get my daughter reading at school earlier.

My partner is a very devoted father but quite honestly doesn't have the time or energy after work/two other quite demanding children to embark on teaching reading.

I think your dd knows that you speak French so if you did some French alphabet and a few basic words - say for half an hour a day - it shouldn't harm your one parent one language relationship. You have a couple of years to go if I understood the system so you could start with some simple first reader books, games or even computer programmes and see how it goes, is your dd having fun, is she grasping it or is too much for her etc. My 2 dc did the alphabet first with a simple wooden jigsaw then I had a computer programme to help them with simple words. That was in English though, I left the 2nd language (German) to school.

Admylin - yes, she knows I speak French and sometimes I read to her in French since we have a policy of reading books in the original language ie all the Babars in this house are in French.

I think you are right - I should try teaching her the alphabet in French - she is very interested in the alphabet at the moment and watches Maisy's ABC endlessly, off her own bat. And see where we go from there.

I personally also would not get too stressed about the streaming. That's years ahead, isn't it?
However, I do read to my dd in English, although I speak in another language to her (we live in London, dh speaks yet another language, and the two of us speak English to each other). I started out out translating English books into my language, but although that was fine while we were mostly discussing the pictures, I never felt very comfortable with that once we progressed to me really reading the text (I felt that too much got lost - rhymes, etc.), and somehow we naturally graduated to me reading English books in English to her (but I also continue to read books in my first language to her). She is slowly learning to read and write now at nursery school (she'll move up to reception soon), and I help her with this in English (when she instigates it). It seems to work fine, but then I feel ok about that English will be her dominant language (no decent bi/or multi-lingual schools here).

I personally also would not get too stressed about the streaming. That's years ahead, isn't it?
However, I do read to my dd in English, although I speak in another language to her (we live in London, dh speaks yet another language, and the two of us speak English to each other). I started out out translating English books into my language, but although that was fine while we were mostly discussing the pictures, I never felt very comfortable with that once we progressed to me really reading the text (I felt that too much got lost - rhymes, etc.), and somehow we naturally graduated to me reading English books in English to her (but I also continue to read books in my first language to her). She is slowly learning to read and write now at nursery school (she'll move up to reception soon), and I help her with this in English (when she instigates it). It seems to work fine, but then I feel ok about that English will be her dominant language (no decent bi/or multi-lingual schools here).

Joppe - we have 18 months ahead of us if she is to learn to read in French and go into the French reading class. So, no, that's not years ahead . I need to start thinking about this in the next few months.

I understand the dilemma though, the alphabet really has to learned twice in both languages. You have to decide which langauge to start with. I would say French because she is obviously going to be good in the English part of her schooling as it is her mother tongue anyway - could you ask the school for some tips on which learning programme they use? Maybe you could get hold of some of the material and get a head start.

Would be surprised tbh that 1/4 would be able to able to read at 6. Is it 6 as in Germany? Here some parents do teach their children and some do pick it up but far under 25%.
As for teaching her yourself, I've contemplated that as we have the same set up language-wise as you. I left the boys to learn at school and btw they taught themselves more or less to read English once they learnt in German.
Dd (5) is far more fluent and aware than the boys were but her fluency in English means her German vocab is far behind monolingual 5 yr olds. She's now in Kindergarten till 4pm which has helped enormously.
I wondered if I taught her to read in German then her vocab & language skills would leap ahead but baulked because it felt so unnatural initially.
Now however, we talk so much more about "What's that in German?" and I do teach her words which I never/rarely had to with the boys. She's soaking up sounds and letters and is so confident. She sees it all as great fun - even speech therapy which was ostensibly for her "sch" sounds but really more for her lack of grammar - is "fantastic" as she loves learning words.
Right now I'm holding off on the reading but only because I'm concentrating on the verbal side first. I'll see how things are in the Spring. Much to be said for letting the child set the pace but ime, I've got over the barrier of not teaching her in German as my approach to it is different with her. Possibly influenced, it occurs to me now, by the fact that since the boys started school, we do have to discuss German in English (iyswim) so it's become natural, if a little odd to an observer.

Can I just add that it is actually incredibly interesting to watch/help your child to first learn to write and read in a language that is different to your own language? In my case, I'm absolutely fascinated by how this works with English, which is such an unphonetic (that's probably not a word) language. This is not answering your question, I know!

finknottle - I think (from my fairly limited data) that the French system prepares children for reading a little earlier than in Germany.

In my daughter's school there are lots of international parents and, undoubtedly, quite a lot of pushy parents since it is a private school, not just the "school down the road". So I am not particulary surprised to learn that quite a few parents are teaching their children to read ahead of the timetable.

I'd let the teachers do their job Anna. Your dd sounds incredibly smart and is already bilingual. I'm pretty much convinced that by the time she is seven she'll be able to read perfectly both in French and English. I find the idea of them getting bored at nursery quite odd, tbh.

Joppe, that is so true! I was relieved to see that German is actually quite easy to learn to read! Glad I didn't have to do much in English as my dc did the same as finknottle and sort of taught themselves. I did alot of a,b,c and basic words in English with them when they were 2 to 5 years old but the last year before school officially started I stopped and did more Greman (even braved a playgroup) also catching up on fairy tales and famous childrens songs, poems etc.

If you do read to her in French and she enjoys the sounds and ABCs then I'd keep doing more in the same vein in French and English without a big "I will now teach you how to read" banner over your head. That's how I envisage doing it - if I do.

Dd loves playing sounding out "t t t tree, c c c car" etc. on the way to kindergarten or even in the kitchen (magnetic letters are v useful) and I'm at the crossroads of "Do I forge ahead in German or English?" and playing it by ear really. Having had 2 boys in school has made me more aware of how important their confidence is for them to thrive and I do see a happier more confident girl who's enjoying learning what we do, whatever it is. That's enough for now but I may change my mind after the school have their school-starters' assessment with the kindergarten after Christmas
Your situation is different with the streaming, I know. Surely you have time to teach her to read in English first?

finknottle - yes, I could teach her to read in English first, if I feel sure that she will master English well enough before they get started on French.

Will carry on pondering but thanks everyone for all the input. It's very interesting.

Anna - teaching a child to read in any language is 100% easier if the request comes unprompted from the child. Don't be swayed by the pushy parents! Early reading isn't necessarily a good thing. The most important factor IME is the groundwork - mastering letter and syllable sounds thoroughly before attacking sentences.

My younger daughter, who learnt to read with a fantastic montessori method that I can't praise highly enough, is a more fluent reader in both French and English than her older sister, who learnt when she was a full year younger with a less thorough method.

If you do decide to teach your daughter, will the school give you any guidance in the method they use, so as not to confuse your daughter?

Castille - I would definitely not go ahead without knowing more about the method the school uses.

For English it uses ORT. And my sister taught her eldest to read very successfully using ORT and he is now a fantastic reader, so I can pick her brains.

I agree entirely that a child needs to seem interested in reading before starting. As I said earlier, she asks for Maisy's ABC DVD all the time at the moment, unprompted.

I just wanted to share my experience.

I was brought up in France, child of British parents, speaking english at home and french at school. I went through the French system from the age of 3.

My mother/ grandmother/ aunt taught me to read in English at the age of 4 using Ladybird flash cards/ Peter & Jane books.

I then learnt to read in French in 11eme at the age of six, using Paul et Valerie/ joined up writing.

Perhaps I am a bit dim but it took me a while (at least a year) to realise that reading was meant to be the same sort of thing in either language.

I can't really explain why but I would be inclined to leave it -I think teaching your daughter to read in french would be a bit forced/ artificial.

Both mine used ORT - DD1 at school in UK, DD2 at home in France with me. The difference was that DD2 spent more time on sounds (in French, at school, but it seemed to help with both) and ended up more fluent, and total bookworm.

Could be a personality thing, though

I don't think there is any problem with teaching your dc to read a language which is not your mother tongue.

I didn't teach dd to read before she started school in Germany (she was not quite 6, most are closer to 7). IME, such as it is, the late start means learning to read is quite easy and goes very fast.

So dd began reading German at school, I think 4 weeks working on the sounds and beginning a deathly boring Fibel. (Concentrates per page on one or two sounds). I didn't see it going anywhere fast, so from there I taught her myself but she had the vowel and vowel combinations sounds first, like ei and au etc. German is more straight forward than either French or English I would say.

Then once she was reading very fluently in German, my guess is took around 3 months to get the hang of it and build up some reading stamina, after that plain sailing. Th trick I found is a little bit every day, if you can twice a day.

After 6 months altogether, I started teaching her to read English. She had a head start because English is not phonetically enormously different to German but of course has a lot of words which are not pronounced the way they are written. She learnt to recognise words. Actually she found this less difficult than I'd expected. She'd guess from context and managed to figure out more than I would have expected her too. She is now reading very fluently in English too.

My guess is it doesn't harm to wait a bit. There is a different motivation too when the whole class is working on it. Then they WANT to learn and keep up. Also the second language isn't such a battle since they have the confidence to do it, having mastered reading one language already and a lot of it (consonants etc) is transferable knowledge.

Good luck!

Message withdrawn

Pitchounette - thank you for that.

My understanding is that we are talking about real reading. For information, in the other bilingual school in Paris they do have a policy of teaching reading in French in grande section (or as soon as the children are ready) and reading in English in CP.

The bilingual schools, although they are sous contrat, do things a bit differently to normal French schools because the curriculum is so much heavier. So they like to get ahead where possible.